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who are the most likely to be the new Nazi's
Occupy Wall street 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
The Tea Party 23%  23%  [ 9 ]
Neo-Nazi's 18%  18%  [ 7 ]
Israel 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Muslims!! ! 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Obama supporters 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Evangelical Christians 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
A.C.O.R.N. 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Other (please state in the thread) 30%  30%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 40

monkees4va
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10 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

To those arguing whether the Nazi government was left wing or right wing, it was both. The party was called the Nationalist Socialist party-most likely to gain votes from both sides, but both extreme right wing and left wing groups of people. It contained ideals from both political sectors.

Many will argue that it is therefore a centre party, but that is how Germany itself explained it. I learned this in primary school, are your education systems leaving out these details of Hitler's regime?


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10 Oct 2011, 2:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
While George Orwell was a socialist, he was hardly showing the wonders of communism in his books. What he wrote was a warning about the dangers of totalitarianism, which could come from either the left or right.
And despite what you say, Ayn Rand was a hateful old hag who believed selfishness was a virtue, and who held Christ and his message of selflessness and universal love in contempt. And anyone who uses her as inspiration of how a government should work, or how a life should be lived - whether they're the Tea Party, of Paul Ryan - are the enemies of Christian civilization!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The book explores a dystopian United States where leading innovators, ranging from industrialists to artists, refuse to be exploited by society. The protagonist, Dagny Taggart, sees society collapse around her as the government increasingly asserts control over all industry (including Taggart Transcontinental, the once mighty transcontinental railroad for which she serves as the Vice President of Operations), while society's most productive citizens, led by the mysterious John Galt, progressively disappear. Galt describes the strike as "stopping the motor of the world" by withdrawing the "minds" that drive society's growth and productivity. In their efforts, these people "of the mind" hope to demonstrate that a world in which the individual is not free to create is doomed, that civilization cannot exist where every person is a slave to society and government, and that the destruction of the profit motive leads to the collapse of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.



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10 Oct 2011, 2:43 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
While George Orwell was a socialist, he was hardly showing the wonders of communism in his books. What he wrote was a warning about the dangers of totalitarianism, which could come from either the left or right.
And despite what you say, Ayn Rand was a hateful old hag who believed selfishness was a virtue, and who held Christ and his message of selflessness and universal love in contempt. And anyone who uses her as inspiration of how a government should work, or how a life should be lived - whether they're the Tea Party, of Paul Ryan - are the enemies of Christian civilization!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The book explores a dystopian United States where leading innovators, ranging from industrialists to artists, refuse to be exploited by society. The protagonist, Dagny Taggart, sees society collapse around her as the government increasingly asserts control over all industry (including Taggart Transcontinental, the once mighty transcontinental railroad for which she serves as the Vice President of Operations), while society's most productive citizens, led by the mysterious John Galt, progressively disappear. Galt describes the strike as "stopping the motor of the world" by withdrawing the "minds" that drive society's growth and productivity. In their efforts, these people "of the mind" hope to demonstrate that a world in which the individual is not free to create is doomed, that civilization cannot exist where every person is a slave to society and government, and that the destruction of the profit motive leads to the collapse of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.


All this is is replacing the alleged tyranny of the government for the tyranny of privatization. I don't know about you, but I rather like having the government present, so I won't get poisoned eating bad food, or won't get cancer from toxins spewed into the air or dumped into the water by industry. And anyone who's ever worked an industrial job (and I have) will tell you that they'd rather have the government telling the business that they must provide safe working conditions in the work place. Keeping people free from harm by cost cutting industry doesn't stifle creativity. In fact, just the opposite, as more inventors, writers, artists, etc. will continue to be alive to be creative. :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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10 Oct 2011, 3:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
While George Orwell was a socialist, he was hardly showing the wonders of communism in his books. What he wrote was a warning about the dangers of totalitarianism, which could come from either the left or right.
And despite what you say, Ayn Rand was a hateful old hag who believed selfishness was a virtue, and who held Christ and his message of selflessness and universal love in contempt. And anyone who uses her as inspiration of how a government should work, or how a life should be lived - whether they're the Tea Party, of Paul Ryan - are the enemies of Christian civilization!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The book explores a dystopian United States where leading innovators, ranging from industrialists to artists, refuse to be exploited by society. The protagonist, Dagny Taggart, sees society collapse around her as the government increasingly asserts control over all industry (including Taggart Transcontinental, the once mighty transcontinental railroad for which she serves as the Vice President of Operations), while society's most productive citizens, led by the mysterious John Galt, progressively disappear. Galt describes the strike as "stopping the motor of the world" by withdrawing the "minds" that drive society's growth and productivity. In their efforts, these people "of the mind" hope to demonstrate that a world in which the individual is not free to create is doomed, that civilization cannot exist where every person is a slave to society and government, and that the destruction of the profit motive leads to the collapse of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.


All this is is replacing the alleged tyranny of the government for the tyranny of privatization. I don't know about you, but I rather like having the government present, so I won't get poisoned eating bad food, or won't get cancer from toxins spewed into the air or dumped into the water by industry. And anyone who's ever worked an industrial job (and I have) will tell you that they'd rather have the government telling the business that they must provide safe working conditions in the work place. Keeping people free from harm by cost cutting industry doesn't stifle creativity. In fact, just the opposite, as more inventors, writers, artists, etc. will continue to be alive to be creative. :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Cost cutting in an idiotic manner is basically setting up a business to collapse.



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10 Oct 2011, 3:40 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
While George Orwell was a socialist, he was hardly showing the wonders of communism in his books. What he wrote was a warning about the dangers of totalitarianism, which could come from either the left or right.
And despite what you say, Ayn Rand was a hateful old hag who believed selfishness was a virtue, and who held Christ and his message of selflessness and universal love in contempt. And anyone who uses her as inspiration of how a government should work, or how a life should be lived - whether they're the Tea Party, of Paul Ryan - are the enemies of Christian civilization!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The book explores a dystopian United States where leading innovators, ranging from industrialists to artists, refuse to be exploited by society. The protagonist, Dagny Taggart, sees society collapse around her as the government increasingly asserts control over all industry (including Taggart Transcontinental, the once mighty transcontinental railroad for which she serves as the Vice President of Operations), while society's most productive citizens, led by the mysterious John Galt, progressively disappear. Galt describes the strike as "stopping the motor of the world" by withdrawing the "minds" that drive society's growth and productivity. In their efforts, these people "of the mind" hope to demonstrate that a world in which the individual is not free to create is doomed, that civilization cannot exist where every person is a slave to society and government, and that the destruction of the profit motive leads to the collapse of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.


All this is is replacing the alleged tyranny of the government for the tyranny of privatization. I don't know about you, but I rather like having the government present, so I won't get poisoned eating bad food, or won't get cancer from toxins spewed into the air or dumped into the water by industry. And anyone who's ever worked an industrial job (and I have) will tell you that they'd rather have the government telling the business that they must provide safe working conditions in the work place. Keeping people free from harm by cost cutting industry doesn't stifle creativity. In fact, just the opposite, as more inventors, writers, artists, etc. will continue to be alive to be creative. :P

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Cost cutting in an idiotic manner is basically setting up a business to collapse.


Then a lot of businesses who have gone broke should have been considering that, rather than blaming their workers, government regulations, customers, or competition.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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10 Oct 2011, 11:56 pm

monkees4va wrote:
To those arguing whether the Nazi government was left wing or right wing, it was both. The party was called the Nationalist Socialist party-most likely to gain votes from both sides, but both extreme right wing and left wing groups of people. It contained ideals from both political sectors.

Many will argue that it is therefore a centre party, but that is how Germany itself explained it. I learned this in primary school, are your education systems leaving out these details of Hitler's regime?


Now that is something I can agree on saying that it was both is the most logical answer.

And in America our education systems are awful no I wouldnt be surprised that we left out details of Hitlers regime :wink:

Hmm we used to be a very educated country but where not any more we keep electing sheep to rule the sheep that keep voting for them its a good thing I dont vote :lol:

At least I havent found anyone worrthy of my vote yet :wink:



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11 Oct 2011, 12:21 am

Joker wrote:
monkees4va wrote:
To those arguing whether the Nazi government was left wing or right wing, it was both. The party was called the Nationalist Socialist party-most likely to gain votes from both sides, but both extreme right wing and left wing groups of people. It contained ideals from both political sectors.

Many will argue that it is therefore a centre party, but that is how Germany itself explained it. I learned this in primary school, are your education systems leaving out these details of Hitler's regime?


Now that is something I can agree on saying that it was both is the most logical answer.

And in America our education systems are awful no I wouldnt be surprised that we left out details of Hitlers regime :wink:

Hmm we used to be a very educated country but where not any more we keep electing sheep to rule the sheep that keep voting for them its a good thing I dont vote :lol:

At least I havent found anyone worrthy of my vote yet :wink:


I thought I remembered reading the origins of "left versus right" politics in "The Story of Civilization", with much the same in a terse statement at: http://www.jamestoldme.com/2011/05/fran ... -politics/

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11 Oct 2011, 12:36 am

Scythe wrote:
I need something to back up that it is a fact Hitler was not half Jewish I state this more as a rumor as their is no conclusive evidence to either way. Not trying to be offensive but hypocrisy to the highest level is always interesting.


I didn't know that I could change my DNA simply by changing religions.

http://www.beingjewish.com/identity/race.html

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11 Oct 2011, 4:07 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Tadzio wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Tadzio wrote:
Who are the new Nazis?

"The gaze of the neocons, like that of America's perennially autistic ruling classes.... ....to demonstrate that neither their imagination nor their actions will be constrained by anyone or anything - not even by the rules and norms they believe are their country's gift to the world".
"The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin" by Corey Robin (2011), page 194.

With "The Grapes of Wrath" being the role-model for today's Joads taking the blame for their own actions resulting in their long vacation trip to peach-picking employment delights, with plenty of opportunities to eat twice as much as they need from America's garbage, adding the laissez-faire Capitalist-Pigs subduing the Social Contract into worthless Binding Arbitration, "Let Them Eat Cake" sounds like a flame retardant.

Tadzio


Excuse me?!?!?!

I happen to be a Conservative and quite frankly if you want to look at Nazism and compare it to people like me, sorry but Nazism more closely resembles the Left wing ideology than the right.

Pushing for limited Government is a total opposite of Nazism, being pro-life (even if the child may have things like Down Syndrome) is a total opposite of Nazism.

What the hell did your school teach in history class anyways?

Conservatives are against eugenics which as you know the Nazis practiced eugenics.

The Tea Party rallies resulted in 0 Tea Party members being arrested because they were peaceful, before the Nazis took power they engaged in violent protests.

occupy wallstreet has resulted in over 700 arrests of protesters nationwide, and have committed acts of violence, which seem to be more in line with the Nazis from a historical standpoint.

Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), a prominent Jewish congressman, said the Jewish vote is a concern for his party.

“I think Jewish voters will be Democratic and be for Obama in 2012, especially if you get a Republican candidate like [Texas] Gov. [Rick] Perry,” he said. “But there’s no question the Jewish community is much more bipartisan than it has been in previous years. There are Jews who are trending toward the Republican Party, some of it because of their misunderstanding of Obama’s policies in the Middle East, and some of it, quite frankly, for economic reasons. They feel they want to protect their wealth, which is why a lot of well-off voters vote for Republicans.”


http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/18 ... for-nov-12

While Henry Waxman claims he's Jewish, something tells me he turned his back on Judaism years ago, either that or he's completely lost his mind.


Beelzebub is of the opinion that your request for excuse be granted for further entry, but I seldom regard Beelzebub as having any firm foundation, so many obstacles may remain.

The only sensible conclusion I can draw from your identifying conceptual opposites as being with the features of their own conceptual inverse is the initial confusion created by reflection.

Pushing for "limited Government" is not an opposite of Nazism. The works of Ayn Rand compared to the self-explained proclamations of Adolf Hitler are in near perfect agreement with requiring the concept of the corporation to subsume the means for the end at all possible opportunities.

The schools I attended taught the value of utilizing libraries, including the Library of Congress of the United States of America, as major sources of intellectual and established knowledges.

Nazis preached and practiced eugenics directly, while Ayn Rand promotes "purifying the breed" by utilizing exposure to assure death to any of the burdensome inferiors, under "survival of the fittest", and both regarded their own spawn as the most frequently fittest, and singularly fit for "exceptions" to any overly firm rule.

The "Tea Party rallies" have characteristics with much in common in the counting of the votes in Florida, namely, the quashed, and seldom seen, videos of the police running from the non-Liberals, instead of protecting the rights of the public against physical assault and violence from the non-Liberals. Representative Herger's praising as a Great American the self-proclaimed "Patriotic Right-Wing Terrorist" gives a foreboding of knowlege of the absence of enforced laws when criminal acts are committed by such "Great Americans" to silence any Liberal dissenter. The Liberal "dissenter" is much more often the charged person for "blood on the jack-boot attempted suicide-by-cop". The Nazis won elections about like Republicans do. Krisrallnacht was also claimed by the Nazis to be totally distinct from Nazi Party Members.

Non-Liberal protesters having a much lower subjection to technicalities of the law than other protesters is evidence opposite to supporting your results of flawed logic, and reveals a major non sequitur.

The Nazis revoked the Jewish vote, and any opposition to any supporting concerns about maintaining the availability of the Jewish vote is more in line with the Nazi Doctrines. Both religious based preferences and disfavors in voting is held to be an anathema to public elections in the USA.

(Your later postings reeking of aversions to "non-profit", "public", and "subsidized" funding of "monuments", taint the opposite Reaganesque ubiquities of the same, as if anything not of such strain requires crucifixion on a Cross of Gold for any non-monetarists' Public Works).

Tadzio

P.S.: Privatization of the "Big Bad" Government to the "Atlas Randian Pure" Corporation allows every individual person to be divided into so many small pieces for divine corporate consumption that “The realistic alternative to a class action is not 17 million individual suits, but zero individual suits, as only a lunatic or a fanatic sues for $30”, and forget about the obvious doctrine "We do not honor federalist principles in their breach." http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-893.pdf

Tadzio


This is like saying that Conservatives support communism because they like reading 1984 and use it to show the evils of Communism. While George Orwell's intent was to show the value and wonder of socialism, the reality is that Conservatives view it to be an example of why socialism is evil.

Ayn Rand's book, shows the evils of totalitarian Governments, Conservatives views her book as a warning about governments trying to get more and more power. That doesn't mean we agree with everything Ayn Rand was supposedly for, far from it.

You're also telling me that religious people, that believe everyone has certain inalienable rights given to them by God (not the State) are somehow similar to the Nazis. Excuse me?!?!?

I believe a person with black skin has the same rights as a person with white skin because they are both HUMAN BEINGS!! !

Comparing people like me to the Nazis is both outrageous and downright dishonest.



How many excuses are allowable for axiomatic arithmetic? Try to use your fingers, if absolutely necessary. "Inalienable versus unalienable" has already been... Well, which currency do you think any God might prohibit for selling any rights??? The self-defined-divine capitalist-pigs collection seem to think they know!! ! But now, they require up to 3 or 4 forms of photo-ID for each right, unless you want to try for the lottery to be a shooter on the firing squad, with the joke Russian roulette God-Still-Knows blank shell, as if trying for such a lottery didn't already reveal the taint of the spirit to humanity. It's all that blood atonement beyond the powers of any God by professors self-determined as greater than their Gods, but the Statute of Limitations with those Gods are as short as a few seconds to forever.

Nazis were human beings too. Flip-Flop Ronald Reagan was great with flowers at Bitburg also, so try reading some more Grass, before you swallow some of the Polish seagull farang khi nok you seem to be constantly chewing and spitting, but The Tin Drum may be "pornographic" to your Dr. Dobson purity levels, so I hope I didn't unduly offend the Reaganesque view of the 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg with your inverted panavision.

Tadzio



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11 Oct 2011, 4:15 am

Inuyasha wrote:

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.


There is no "seems". That is one of the things Ayn Rand did with her long novel. Philosophically it is an attack on altruism as the basis of morality.

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11 Oct 2011, 1:15 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.


There is no "seems". That is one of the things Ayn Rand did with her long novel. Philosophically it is an attack on altruism as the basis of morality.

ruveyn


Putting a gun to one's head to get them to practice "altruism" is not altruism it is slavery.

Altruism is a good thing, but a person must choose of their own free will to be altruistic, when government gets involved it is not longer altruism.



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11 Oct 2011, 1:31 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
Copyright lobby.

So copyright is wrong?



...what? Could you explain why coyright or this lobby is wrong?



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11 Oct 2011, 1:43 pm

It looks like the poll has a three-way split dominating between:
1) I'll be coy - put the two words together
2) def. Nazi (n) - whoever I like least
3) None of these are legit.


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11 Oct 2011, 1:51 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:

I suggest you look at the plot of Atlas Shrugged, which seems to show the evils of Government controlling everything.


There is no "seems". That is one of the things Ayn Rand did with her long novel. Philosophically it is an attack on altruism as the basis of morality.

ruveyn


Putting a gun to one's head to get them to practice "altruism" is not altruism it is slavery.

Altruism is a good thing, but a person must choose of their own free will to be altruistic, when government gets involved it is not longer altruism.


Which would mean you disagree with miss Rand on that point. To her all Altruism is a lie and a sin against the self.


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11 Oct 2011, 1:52 pm

I have to admit to being somewhat apalled by this.

Attempts to demonize contemporary movements by comparison to the Nazis does nothing except to diminish the culpability of the Nazis.

No matter how egregious the political error of extremists in our contemporary politics, no one has descended to the level of propaganda to dehumanize their targets. The Nazis routinely used euphemism in their propaganda to dehumanize Jews and others viewed as unfit, which ultimately allowed them to industrialize genocide under the sterile and tidy label of "final solution."

No one--not one of the options presented--has descended to such a level. As odious as I find the extremes of partisanship and the intellectually stunted excuse for political debate that goes on today, neither the right nor the left has done worse that attack the intellectual capacity of their opponents. Even the most draconian proposals on illegal immigration are, nonetheless, rooted in legislation, and seek nothing more dramatic than refoulement. Hitler didn't expel the Jews, the Roma, the homosexuals and the "mental defectives." He eradicated them. Not even the most unprincipled conduct of a government agency in the United States can compare with the activities of the gestapo.

And what's worse, no one has seen fit to point this out. (Though, ironically, tequila refers to muslims as "vermin" echoing the language of Goebbels' agitprop). (And yes, I am aware of the irony in the phrase, "Goebbels' agitprop.)

What this does serve to do, however, is to demonstrate the corollary of Godwin's law--that whoever makes the analogy to the Nazis has killed the thread and lost the argument.


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11 Oct 2011, 1:57 pm

visagrunt wrote:
And what's worse, no one has seen fit to point this out. (Though, ironically, tequila refers to muslims as "vermin" echoing the language of Goebbels' agitprop). (And yes, I am aware of the irony in the phrase, "Goebbels' agitprop.)

It's kind of like saying water's wet. He started a pole based on a hyperbole and it seems like the message to the effect your stating is reverberating in a more between-the-lines sort of way. Just looking at the poll results it seems like most people are either agreeing with you or endulging their own hyperbole.


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