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Occupiers are achieving NOTHING

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LKL
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08 Nov 2011, 12:33 am

When someone says, 'that's not fair!,' there are two options:
1)Tell them, 'life's not fair, too bad.' Result: nothing changes, or things get worse.
2)Tell them, 'you're right; let's try to make it better.' Result: nothing changes, or things get better.

Saying 'life isn't fair' is just a cop-out to keep from having to try to fix anything. It's the moral equivalent of saying 'goddidit' to answer a scientific question.



Sweetleaf
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08 Nov 2011, 12:37 am

Life isen't fair and there always must be winners and losers apparently.

So I and all the other 'losers' just need to suck it up and happily accept our role as losers. :twisted:



LKL
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08 Nov 2011, 12:52 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Life isen't fair and there always must be winners and losers apparently.

So I and all the other 'losers' just need to suck it up and happily accept our role as losers. :twisted:

You're on a website of people with Asperger's syndrome. Most of us are 'losers' by the standards of society at large.



Vigilans
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08 Nov 2011, 12:54 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Life isen't fair and there always must be winners and losers apparently.

So I and all the other 'losers' just need to suck it up and happily accept our role as losers. :twisted:


What have you "lost" today, Sweetleaf?

A loser someone who takes pleasure in making things difficult for other people, who is a conceited hypocrite (the type of person that many people on this board have the worst experiences with), not someone who is stumbling on the rocky road that is the real world. Everyone stumbles sometimes. "Winners and losers" is poorly thought out Social Darwinism, which is a relic of the 19th century Randians like to circle jerk over, mysteriously, since a fair portion of them are low income, low intelligence, survivalist/militia types who are hardly the top of the social ladder they proscribe to.


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Sweetleaf
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08 Nov 2011, 12:55 am

LKL wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Life isen't fair and there always must be winners and losers apparently.

So I and all the other 'losers' just need to suck it up and happily accept our role as losers. :twisted:

You're on a website of people with Asperger's syndrome. Most of us are 'losers' by the standards of society at large.


That is why I do not understand some of the opinions on here.....everyone is entitled to think whatever they want to, but it is a little suprising.



Sweetleaf
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08 Nov 2011, 12:57 am

Vigilans wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Life isen't fair and there always must be winners and losers apparently.

So I and all the other 'losers' just need to suck it up and happily accept our role as losers. :twisted:


What have you "lost" today, Sweetleaf?

A loser someone who takes pleasure in making things difficult for other people, who is a conceited hypocrite (the type of person that many people on this board have the worst experiences with), not someone who is stumbling on the rocky road that is the real world. Everyone stumbles sometimes. "Winners and losers" is poorly thought out Social Darwinism, which is a relic of the 19th century Randians like to circle jerk over, mysteriously, since a fair portion of them are low income, low intelligence, survivalist/militia types who are hardly the top of the social ladder they proscribe to.


Well I was going by societies standards, in which case I certainly am a loser.....but I would argue that an actual loser is closer to your description.



Master_Pedant
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08 Nov 2011, 12:58 am

Asp-Z wrote:
"The capitalism we have now is evil and corrupt! Let's split the money up between people and wait to see what happens! MUCH BETTER!"

Also...

Image


Wow, what a dumbass image. Are you so intellectually dishonest that you'd ignore that fact you could probably do the same gottcha stunt to an abolitionist rally (noting that various "slave-made" products that some of the said people probably used). Regardless, I hardly see how ending corporate person-hood or ending corporate donations to political parties (two goals relatively common among the heterogeneous occupiers) has anything to do with not having goods manufactured.


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Vigilans
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08 Nov 2011, 1:03 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
"The capitalism we have now is evil and corrupt! Let's split the money up between people and wait to see what happens! MUCH BETTER!"

Also...

Image


Wow, what a dumbass image. Are you so intellectually dishonest that you'd ignore that fact you could probably do the same gottcha stunt to an abolitionist rally (noting that various "slave-made" products that some of the said people probably used). Regardless, I hardly see how ending corporate person-hood or ending corporate donations to political parties (two goals relatively common among the heterogeneous occupiers) has anything to do with not having goods manufactured.


I agree, especially with your point about abolitionism and slave products. And yes, opposing corporate personhood and political lobbying does not imply that one is objecting to the existence of said corporation. It seems a lot of conservatives are saying things along these lines...

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I was going by societies standards, in which case I certainly am a loser.....but I would argue that an actual loser is closer to your description.


Society can f**k right off :lol: you know and the people that are worthwhile know you're not a loser, that is what matters


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Kail
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08 Nov 2011, 1:06 am

JWC wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Let me interpret a bit before this gets angry.
JWC was just kidding about your whining -only funny if you got it- I don't think anyone meant any harm.
My NT wife just got into one of these with an NT facebook friend.
My strategy if someone says something I don't understand is to assume it was some kinda joke.
does not always work but it is better than getting mad.


No, I wasn't completely kidding about the whining; but I meant it in more of a tough love way. Sometimes you just gotta 'man up' and live your life. The world can be a f**ked up place. There is no 'solution' to murder, starvation or poverty; these things will always happen to some degree. There will always be winners and there will always be losers. Competition is a good thing. Eliminating competition can't make everyone winners, in fact, it makes everyone losers. Without competition everyone loses the benefit of the products created by the competitively inspired mind. More than, money or power; the greatest men among us are motivated by glory. Remove competition and you remove winners. So, my kind suggestion to you is to not focus on what we humans do as a species; instead focus on what you do and can do as an individual to win as much as you can and not be one more loser who just quit playing the game.


You need check yourself before you wreck yourself "dude".

I think you should Recalibrate your demeanor, and re-approach the situation with wisdom instead of knowledge.



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08 Nov 2011, 1:08 am

Vigilans wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
"The capitalism we have now is evil and corrupt! Let's split the money up between people and wait to see what happens! MUCH BETTER!"

Also...

Image


Wow, what a dumbass image. Are you so intellectually dishonest that you'd ignore that fact you could probably do the same gottcha stunt to an abolitionist rally (noting that various "slave-made" products that some of the said people probably used). Regardless, I hardly see how ending corporate person-hood or ending corporate donations to political parties (two goals relatively common among the heterogeneous occupiers) has anything to do with not having goods manufactured.


I agree, especially with your point about abolitionism and slave products. And yes, opposing corporate personhood and political lobbying does not imply that one is objecting to the existence of said corporation. It seems a lot of conservatives are saying things along these lines...

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well I was going by societies standards, in which case I certainly am a loser.....but I would argue that an actual loser is closer to your description.


Society can f**k right off :lol: you know and the people that are worthwhile know you're not a loser, that is what matters


Yeah I guess so, I mean that is probably true but I will admit I don't currently feel that awesome about myself so I do kinda feel like a loser.



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08 Nov 2011, 1:11 am

Vigilans wrote:

I agree, especially with your point about abolitionism and slave products. And yes, opposing corporate personhood and political lobbying does not imply that one is objecting to the existence of said corporation. It seems a lot of conservatives are saying things along these lines...


It's also pretty funny that various Free Market Capitalists™ are fawning over and jumping to defend an organizational form that A) Deviates substantially from the ideal of "perfect competition" and B) Emerged thanks to GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#Formation

And doesn't the corporate structure have so many features that the right frequently bemoans governments for? I know someone who worked in various positions within the corporate bureaucracy and he has said that any pathology which effects the State Apparatus also effects the corporate form.


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08 Nov 2011, 1:12 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Asp-Z wrote:
"The capitalism we have now is evil and corrupt! Let's split the money up between people and wait to see what happens! MUCH BETTER!"

Also...

Image


Wow, what a dumbass image. Are you so intellectually dishonest that you'd ignore that fact you could probably do the same gottcha stunt to an abolitionist rally (noting that various "slave-made" products that some of the said people probably used). Regardless, I hardly see how ending corporate person-hood or ending corporate donations to political parties (two goals relatively common among the heterogeneous occupiers) has anything to do with not having goods manufactured.


This photo should be redone, but redone to perfection. Corporations are not the reason we have everything in the material world, it is inventors and scientists why we have a plentiful world. It's the corporations who threw the economy, ecosystem, moral integrity, truth and freedom under the bus. SCIENTISTS and INTELLECTUALS DESERVE TO SHAPE THE WORLD. NOT MANIPULATORS WITH FAKE POWER.



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08 Nov 2011, 1:22 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Yeah I guess so, I mean that is probably true but I will admit I don't currently feel that awesome about myself so I do kinda feel like a loser.


I know the feeling, people can be cruel and make one feel worthless. Its not easy but feeling more comfortable in your own shoes, and having a sense of identity or purpose, certainly helps.

Master_Pedant wrote:
It's also pretty funny that various Free Market Capitalists™ are fawning over and jumping to defend an organizational form that A) Deviates substantially from the ideal of "perfect competition" and B) Emerged thanks to GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.


Absolutely. Another thing I find strange is the idea that most of the inventions in that picture are solely due to corporations. Maybe they marketed it, but chances are they bought or licenses a patent made by an individual, though of course there are countless inventions partially funded by corporate money. One reason corporations are a good thing. I actually think corporations have the potential to be enormous forces of good if they were being operated with better standards. Some already are actually beneficial and provide good or necessary services. Though my own view is more favorable to cooperative oriented corporations, which I feel represent a brighter future than the bleak one presented by the current magnates

Master_Pedant wrote:
And doesn't the corporate structure have so many features that the right frequently bemoans governments for? I know someone who worked in various positions within the corporate bureaucracy and he has said that any pathology which effects the State Apparatus also effects the corporate form.


Yes, certainly. I'm sure businesses have looked to the government for examples on administration and vice versa. Corporate bureaucracy is notorious. But you gotta do some book learnin' to know all that, and books are frequently known to have a left-wing bias. Better to browse youtube user videoblogs for one's opinions, at least that way you know its a real person telling you stuff and not just a bunch of crazy ink words on some paper. Get self-smarted


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08 Nov 2011, 2:27 am

[quote="Vexcalibur"Then we have the strange arguments against the protests: "They are achieving NOTHING". Of course they are not. However, is that a reason to disallow people from using their right to protest? Also, many times it seems that a protest is accomplishing nothing but at the end they do.[/quote]

They are being highly productive...and all the conservatives have to do is sit back and watch (and laugh) as they play lord of the Flies. :lol: :P


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08 Nov 2011, 4:28 am

They are not achieving nothing. They are creating visibility for discontent and a desire for fiscal responsibility, a return to stronger ethics within the financial sector, and economic stability.

This visibility can actually have a very strong influence on the decisions of others, in the financial sector and elsewhere, and reorganize priorities.



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08 Nov 2011, 8:59 am

Vigilans wrote:

Master_Pedant wrote:
It's also pretty funny that various Free Market Capitalists™ are fawning over and jumping to defend an organizational form that A) Deviates substantially from the ideal of "perfect competition" and B) Emerged thanks to GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION.


Absolutely. Another thing I find strange is the idea that most of the inventions in that picture are solely due to corporations. Maybe they marketed it, but chances are they bought or licenses a patent made by an individual, though of course there are countless inventions partially funded by corporate money. One reason corporations are a good thing. I actually think corporations have the potential to be enormous forces of good if they were being operated with better standards. Some already are actually beneficial and provide good or necessary services. Though my own view is more favorable to cooperative oriented corporations, which I feel represent a brighter future than the bleak one presented by the current magnates


Let's not also forget that a lot of risky R&D is funded by the government, just look at the Internet.


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