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Country club conservatives Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney

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Raptor
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24 Jan 2012, 9:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or perhaps liberals who are also gun enthusiasts are almost universally misconstrued as conservatives because of stereotyping.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Stereotyping spread by whom?


He's probably referring to me :D

Anyhoo, since some of you follow politicians every move so closely you might of notice that liberals are traditionally anti-gun and conservatives pro-gun. Of course (and I shouldn’t have to point this out) there are exceptions to every rule including this one.

I have noticed more liberals buying guns and taking somewhat of an interest in them since the Obaminator took office in January ’09 when we had the gun ban paranoia thing for a while. Some of them actually feel passionate about their 2nd Amendment rights since then and that will cost Obama some votes this November.

I’ll add that Barack Obama created and unintentional windfall for the firearm and ammunition industry in the early half of this term. Guns, ammo, and even reloading supplies were selling faster than they could be restocked. Any gun shop worth doing business with had a full parking lot ALL day for the first few months.

Still, though, most all of the devout gun people are conservative and most liberals are still anti and I can’t see that changing significantly because of the principles and philosophies of both sides.

Okay, someone elses turn to be offended by me.
:D


Nothing offensive about having an observation. But just because conservatives purchased fire arms out of blind paranoia that "the Muslim terrorist attending a black nationalist church" was going to seize their guns doesn't mean that every gun owner fell for that lunacy.
And how do you know many - if any - Democratic gun owners scrambled to buy guns when Obama had been elected president?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Nothing offensive about having an observation. But just because conservatives purchased fire arms out of blind paranoia that "the Muslim terrorist attending a black nationalist church" was going to seize their guns doesn't mean that every gun owner fell for that lunacy.


I admit there was paranoia but very few of my fellow gun nuts that I actually know or I saw a reason for it. Once the hoarding started, though, it spread and then everyone had to jump in there just to get what they would have bought anyway before it was gone.
The concern wasn’t that the Muslim terrorist that attends the black nationalist church was going to seize anything but of impending legislation that would over-tax ammunition or make future transfer of certain firearms illegal or difficult.
As it turns out, though, nothing ever came of that legislation.
The seizure thingy was more of a concern for a relative few gun people but I’m sure MSNBC or CNN made it out to be widespread.

Quote:
And how do you know many - if any - Democratic gun owners scrambled to buy guns when Obama had been elected president?


Umm……I know some of them so it stands to reason that if I know some of them that there were more than just them buying guns. As an example, one of the foulest liberals I know bought at least a Springfield Armory .45 and quite probably one or two after that.

Next.......


Is there a religious component? Is anyone stashing away guns for the "upcoming apocalypse?"

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Do I detect sarcasm?



Kraichgauer
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24 Jan 2012, 10:00 pm

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Or perhaps liberals who are also gun enthusiasts are almost universally misconstrued as conservatives because of stereotyping.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Stereotyping spread by whom?


He's probably referring to me :D

Anyhoo, since some of you follow politicians every move so closely you might of notice that liberals are traditionally anti-gun and conservatives pro-gun. Of course (and I shouldn’t have to point this out) there are exceptions to every rule including this one.

I have noticed more liberals buying guns and taking somewhat of an interest in them since the Obaminator took office in January ’09 when we had the gun ban paranoia thing for a while. Some of them actually feel passionate about their 2nd Amendment rights since then and that will cost Obama some votes this November.

I’ll add that Barack Obama created and unintentional windfall for the firearm and ammunition industry in the early half of this term. Guns, ammo, and even reloading supplies were selling faster than they could be restocked. Any gun shop worth doing business with had a full parking lot ALL day for the first few months.

Still, though, most all of the devout gun people are conservative and most liberals are still anti and I can’t see that changing significantly because of the principles and philosophies of both sides.

Okay, someone elses turn to be offended by me.
:D


Nothing offensive about having an observation. But just because conservatives purchased fire arms out of blind paranoia that "the Muslim terrorist attending a black nationalist church" was going to seize their guns doesn't mean that every gun owner fell for that lunacy.
And how do you know many - if any - Democratic gun owners scrambled to buy guns when Obama had been elected president?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Quote:
Nothing offensive about having an observation. But just because conservatives purchased fire arms out of blind paranoia that "the Muslim terrorist attending a black nationalist church" was going to seize their guns doesn't mean that every gun owner fell for that lunacy.


I admit there was paranoia but very few of my fellow gun nuts that I actually know or I saw a reason for it. Once the hoarding started, though, it spread and then everyone had to jump in there just to get what they would have bought anyway before it was gone.
The concern wasn’t that the Muslim terrorist that attends the black nationalist church was going to seize anything but of impending legislation that would over-tax ammunition or make future transfer of certain firearms illegal or difficult.
As it turns out, though, nothing ever came of that legislation.
The seizure thingy was more of a concern for a relative few gun people but I’m sure MSNBC or CNN made it out to be widespread.

Quote:
And how do you know many - if any - Democratic gun owners scrambled to buy guns when Obama had been elected president?


Umm……I know some of them so it stands to reason that if I know some of them that there were more than just them buying guns. As an example, one of the foulest liberals I know bought at least a Springfield Armory .45 and quite probably one or two after that.

Next.......


Is there a religious component? Is anyone stashing away guns for the "upcoming apocalypse?"

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Do I detect sarcasm?


Probably. But just the same, I'd like to know.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Raptor
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24 Jan 2012, 10:04 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Country club conservative Newt Gingrich now thinks that it's time to "move on" from the issue of Romney's taxes. Conveniently, after info of his own tax filings are getting out.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXqLwiy2adU[/youtube]


So who's next month's Country club conservative going to be?
Maybe you should design and market a Country Club Conservative of the Month calendar.
:idea:



Kraichgauer
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24 Jan 2012, 10:07 pm

Raptor wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
Country club conservative Newt Gingrich now thinks that it's time to "move on" from the issue of Romney's taxes. Conveniently, after info of his own tax filings are getting out.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXqLwiy2adU[/youtube]


So who's next month's Country club conservative going to be?
Maybe you should design and market a Country Club Conservative of the Month calendar.
:idea:


Sounds good to me! :D

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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24 Jan 2012, 11:14 pm

Raptor wrote:

So who's next month's Country club conservative going to be?
Maybe you should design and market a Country Club Conservative of the Month calendar.
:idea:


I won't stop attaching "country club" to rich conservatives until rightwingers stop attaching "limousine" to professional class "liberals".


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24 Jan 2012, 11:35 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Raptor wrote:

So who's next month's Country club conservative going to be?
Maybe you should design and market a Country Club Conservative of the Month calendar.
:idea:


I won't stop attaching "country club" to rich conservatives until rightwingers stop attaching "limousine" to professional class "liberals".


Seeing a liberal with excess money and/or flaunting their wealth comes off as hypocritical. If they really cared instead of just paying lip service they’d give the bulk of their wealth to the needy and be happy driving a Kia. You know, that distribution of wealth thing the left loves to harp on put into action.
No, they’d rather be generous with other people’s money.
But carry on, though.
Your antics are amusing in a pitiful sort of way.



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24 Jan 2012, 11:39 pm

Raptor wrote:

Seeing a liberal with excess money and/or flaunting their wealth comes off as hypocritical. If they really cared instead of just paying lip service they’d give the bulk of their wealth to the needy and be happy driving a Kia. You know, that distribution of wealth thing the left loves to harp on put into action.
No, they’d rather be generous with other people’s money.
But carry on, though.
Your antics are amusing in a pitiful sort of way.


Generally speaking, country club conservative-owned PR firms don't check to see the percentage of income upper-middle class Democratic voters (some of whom aren't even really liberal) donate to charity before attacking them. But please, continue your second grade antics of saying outrageous crap to get a rise out of "the left". As the son of a working poor single father, I know who the real foes of the working class are.

Image


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25 Jan 2012, 12:10 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Raptor wrote:

Seeing a liberal with excess money and/or flaunting their wealth comes off as hypocritical. If they really cared instead of just paying lip service they’d give the bulk of their wealth to the needy and be happy driving a Kia. You know, that distribution of wealth thing the left loves to harp on put into action.
No, they’d rather be generous with other people’s money.
But carry on, though.
Your antics are amusing in a pitiful sort of way.


Generally speaking, country club conservative-owned PR firms don't check to see the percentage of income upper-middle class Democratic voters (some of whom aren't even really liberal) donate to charity before attacking them. But please, continue your second grade antics of saying outrageous crap to get a rise out of "the left". As the son of a working poor single father, I know who the real foes of the working class are.

Image


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Jan 2012, 1:40 am

Actually, most of the people I know who bought guns in anticipation of Obama related lawmaking were speculating more than anything; people remember how much pre-ban guns and magazines shot up in value during the Clinton years and were looking to clean up in case of a repeat. They'll probably do okay anyway, I've never lost money on a gun and I don't even try to buy with an eye to later sale price.


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25 Jan 2012, 1:46 am

Dox47 wrote:
Actually, most of the people I know who bought guns in anticipation of Obama related lawmaking were speculating more than anything; people remember how much pre-ban guns and magazines shot up in value during the Clinton years and were looking to clean up in case of a repeat. They'll probably do okay anyway, I've never lost money on a gun and I don't even try to buy with an eye to later sale price.


I went to a gun show back in the Clinton years with a friend who's a gun nut, and I'll tell you, from all the Anti-Clinton, Anti-Janet Reno literature and posters all over the place, I deduced these were the most paranoid people I had ever seen.
And to think, in the end, Slick Willy didn't seize a single gun. And neither will Obama. Crazy people are just able to delude themselves better than anyone else.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Jan 2012, 2:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I went to a gun show back in the Clinton years with a friend who's a gun nut, and I'll tell you, from all the Anti-Clinton, Anti-Janet Reno literature and posters all over the place, I deduced these were the most paranoid people I had ever seen.
And to think, in the end, Slick Willy didn't seize a single gun. And neither will Obama. Crazy people are just able to delude themselves better than anyone else.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Clinton? Seize? No. Ban? Yes. Would have banned a lot more too if he thought he could get away with it, luckily he had to drop a retroactive portion of the AWB law and add a sunset clause to get it through congress, otherwise we'd probably still be stuck with it. Clinton had never shown any signs of being a gun prohibitionist prior to ascending to the presidency, while Obama had a number of anti-gun votes on his record when he became a candidate. Going by historical precedent and a politician's voting record when evaluating the likelihood of them taking certain actions is not paranoia but prudence.

Also, let's not forget that Clinton and Reno also were responsible for Ruby Ridge and Waco, both incidents where the feds initiated violence that resulted in deaths because of alleged technical violations of the gun laws; incidents I know you're aware of because I'm the one that spelled out to you exactly what was so very wrong about them, especially Ruby Ridge. Do I need to rehash that thread again since it seems to have slipped your mind?

Why don't you just be honest and admit that your real problem with gun people is the same problem you have with every other group you attack; that they tend to vote for the guys with the Rs after their names and you prefer the guys with the Ds? Never mind that there's not much daylight showing between the two these days, a real partisan sticks by his team no matter what.


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Kraichgauer
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25 Jan 2012, 2:23 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I went to a gun show back in the Clinton years with a friend who's a gun nut, and I'll tell you, from all the Anti-Clinton, Anti-Janet Reno literature and posters all over the place, I deduced these were the most paranoid people I had ever seen.
And to think, in the end, Slick Willy didn't seize a single gun. And neither will Obama. Crazy people are just able to delude themselves better than anyone else.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Clinton? Seize? No. Ban? Yes. Would have banned a lot more too if he thought he could get away with it, luckily he had to drop a retroactive portion of the AWB law and add a sunset clause to get it through congress, otherwise we'd probably still be stuck with it. Clinton had never shown any signs of being a gun prohibitionist prior to ascending to the presidency, while Obama had a number of anti-gun votes on his record when he became a candidate. Going by historical precedent and a politician's voting record when evaluating the likelihood of them taking certain actions is not paranoia but prudence.

Also, let's not forget that Clinton and Reno also were responsible for Ruby Ridge and Waco, both incidents where the feds initiated violence that resulted in deaths because of alleged technical violations of the gun laws; incidents I know you're aware of because I'm the one that spelled out to you exactly what was so very wrong about them, especially Ruby Ridge. Do I need to rehash that thread again since it seems to have slipped your mind?

Why don't you just be honest and admit that your real problem with gun people is the same problem you have with every other group you attack; that they tend to vote for the guys with the Rs after their names and you prefer the guys with the Ds? Never mind that there's not much daylight showing between the two these days, a real partisan sticks by his team no matter what.


I absolutely have no problem with gun ownership, and I never said all gun owners were paranoid. I was writing specifically about the lunatic fringe I had observed. I don't even have any problem with Republicans loving their guns. I do have a problem with marginalized religious people - which, yes, includes the Branch Davidians and the Weavers - who come to the conclusion that they need to arm themselves for Christ's return. And no, I'm not saying that those people at Waco and Ruby Ridge should have died, but the inescapable fact is, when crazy people who have deeply held apocalyptic beliefs which can't possibly be true get hold of guns, very bad things happen. If you disagree with me, then show me where the federal government ended up in a stand off with Presbyterians, or Congregationalists, or some other mainline denomination.
And if the truth be known, I have a far greater problem with people who cling to the wrong kind of religion than I do with gun owners.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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26 Jan 2012, 12:49 am

Raptor wrote:
Maybe you should move down here, become a citizen and voter, and show us uncouth hicks how it's done.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgVspgy184[/youtube]


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26 Jan 2012, 12:59 am

Master_Pedant wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Maybe you should move down here, become a citizen and voter, and show us uncouth hicks how it's done.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsgVspgy184[/youtube]


I have very fond memories of SCTV. 8)

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26 Jan 2012, 4:08 am

Just musing on alliterative labels, I think the first time I heard the term "limousine liberal" was during a school choice debate, when it was used to refer to people who backed the teacher's unions to the hilt over things like not firing incompetent or abusive teachers and universal tenure while putting their own children in private schools. "Latte liberal" I was not aware of until I saw it (mis)used here, but I was instantly able to visualize the stereotype it was referring to; upper middle class young people claiming to represent the lower class's interests from their perch at Starbucks with their prominently displayed Apple product. Perhaps I'm a little too familiar with that image, being from Seattle and all, but the coffee-shop poseur thing is a pretty well known phenomenon.

I don't know if M_P actually coined "country club conservative", but he was the first person I saw using the term. Like "latte liberal", it does conjure up a very clear picture, in this case of of business and political dealings over 18 holes, possibly involving cigars, and of a monied old boys club. My criticism of the term would be in over-deploying it; "limousine liberal" and "latte liberal" work because they evoke hypocrisy, where as I don't know that country club membership is all that hypocritical for a conservative unless they're explicitly the populist version. It's like the difference when a social conservative get's caught cheating on his wife vs when a social liberal gets caught doing the same; neither is good, but only one is really hypocritical.

A misguided accusation of hypocrisy tends to explode in the accuser's face; the person who called M_P a latte liberal looked foolish when M_P established his working class bonafides.

I don't know that Mitt Romney has ever denied being a wealthy white businessman, though he's certainly downplayed it in the press lately. Gingrich can certainly be called out though because he's attacking Romney for being exactly what he himself is. Gingrich of course has a long, long history of hypocrisy to his name, so the issue is more in choosing which of his many hypocrisies to call him out on. I like Chickenhawk myself when it comes to Newt, though his indignation over questions about his infidelities is a pretty tempting target considering his central role in the Clinton impeachment.


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26 Jan 2012, 4:16 am

Dox47 wrote:
Just musing on alliterative labels, I think the first time I heard the term "limousine liberal" was during a school choice debate, when it was used to refer to people who backed the teacher's unions to the hilt over things like not firing incompetent or abusive teachers and universal tenure while putting their own children in private schools. "Latte liberal" I was not aware of until I saw it (mis)used here, but I was instantly able to visualize the stereotype it was referring to; upper middle class young people claiming to represent the lower class's interests from their perch at Starbucks with their prominently displayed Apple product. Perhaps I'm a little too familiar with that image, being from Seattle and all, but the coffee-shop poseur thing is a pretty well known phenomenon.

I don't know if M_P actually coined "country club conservative", but he was the first person I saw using the term. Like "latte liberal", it does conjure up a very clear picture, in this case of of business and political dealings over 18 holes, possibly involving cigars, and of a monied old boys club. My criticism of the term would be in over-deploying it; "limousine liberal" and "latte liberal" work because they evoke hypocrisy, where as I don't know that country club membership is all that hypocritical for a conservative unless they're explicitly the populist version. It's like the difference when a social conservative get's caught cheating on his wife vs when a social liberal gets caught doing the same; neither is good, but only one is really hypocritical.

A misguided accusation of hypocrisy tends to explode in the accuser's face; the person who called M_P a latte liberal looked foolish when M_P established his working class bonafides.

I don't know that Mitt Romney has ever denied being a wealthy white businessman, though he's certainly downplayed it in the press lately. Gingrich can certainly be called out though because he's attacking Romney for being exactly what he himself is. Gingrich of course has a long, long history of hypocrisy to his name, so the issue is more in choosing which of his many hypocrisies to call him out on. I like Chickenhawk myself when it comes to Newt, though his indignation over questions about his infidelities is a pretty tempting target considering his central role in the Clinton impeachment.


So... it's okay for Republicans with money to be country club conservatives, but Democrats are hypocritical limousine liberals if they do...?
I thought it was the Republican party line that it's okay if you're rich. I didn't think that one's political affiliation mattered in this regard.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer