Conservative and rightwing aspies unite....

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i predict 1 million iraqis will have died by the time we get out of there out. and 5,000+ usa dead

Al Zarqawi, the head of the Iraq insurgency for a year or so, was a member of Al Qaeda. This has been confirmed.

Yes, but of course the insurgency in Iraq rose up after Saddam Hussein's dictatorship was overthrown by American troops. You never stated whether any Al Qaida members had connections to Iraq *before* Bush declared war.

You didn't actually say "Al Qaeda/Iraq link before the invasion", you only said "Al Qaeda/Iraq link".

And you're right - there was no prior link between Al Qaeda and Iraq. Which means that Al Qaeda (and it's affiliated groups and sub-groups) is an invasive army. Even if you consider the US having no right to be in Iraq in the first place, Al Qaeda is at least as morally reprehensible. Moreso since they're the ones murdering civilians deliberately.

Seriously? I just run out of energy to refute things sometimes. It's like I said somewhere else. When someone makes a claim like 'the sun is black', there's nothing to be said. It is, or should be, obvious that the sun is in fact yellow, and if you respond to his claim "IS NOT!", then in the end it sounds worse than flaming.

Maybe calling him Eurotrash is a bad idea, especially if he's not from Europe. You try being a centrist who has to compulsively argue with liberals and ends up cast as the resident bigoted racist Christian when you are in fact none of those things.

History shows that war is necessary, on occasion. Often, the only solution otherwise is appeasement. When you know your position is morally sound, and that appeasement will prejudice the interests of your nation, then war may be the only solution. In my opinion, being able to effectively wage war, and maintaining the perception in others' minds that you are ready and willing to engage in conflict, is one of the best assurances a western nation can have as regards the continuation of its culture along with the relative freedoms enjoyed by its citizens. On that basis, I believe military action in Iraq was justified — to have not acted after the games ol' Saddam had been playing would have been a sign of weakness.



The US are not the only people involved. I believe around 50 nations have had an input in the Iraq war on the side of the US.

Yes because there are rarely civilian casualties as the result of starting a war. You know, Bush actually had the option to stay out of it. He could also be looking at the end of the occupation in the very near future if he bothered to take his head out of his *** long enough to at least
execute the war with some intelligence, in my opinion.



It might surprise you that I have a mind of my own. And thing called empathy. Look, ah, jeez, why the he$$ do some people always bring up the argument that conflicts can't be solved/liberties cannot be kept without war, etc.? That breed of attitude is one of the main reasons 'we' still blow eachother up at every opportunity. Yes!, there are problems in the east, there are many, many oppressed people there and blowing them all to hell (beside 'the terrorists') is the way to make the future brighter for their (and our) future generations, right? Bull. The west wouldn't be what it is today without a cazillion atrocities , that's true; it would be a far better society.
Oh and before I get out of this thread, I think you might be right about this:




and I'm wondering who's feet you lay balme at for it if you don't point partly at the US for engaging in this situation. There are peace keeping/aid missions desperately needed in other parts of the world being all but ignored by the west aswell, so I think the west is already loosing its guts.

Who trained bin laden?

he did try to change your precious constitution to prevent gay righyts.
he does support torture.
he does belive the iraq war is a Mission from God.
And he justifies all this by his christianity. is IS relevent to highlight the hypocrisy of condemining the barbarity of muslims by christians ignoring their own barbarity.
the only reason christian groups dont go about bombing muslims ( lets ignore the murdering christian phalange shall we?) is because the american government does it for em.
necessary war my arse. unless you count cheap oil as necessary.

wow you must be old

^^^Spoken like generic ignorant Eurotrash.

Eurotrash?

I have Australian pride but I wouldn't go insulting the land I came from but a few centuries ago..

Instead of making some racial slur maybe you should counter his apparently ignorant comments with some real ones of your own?

This thread got funny.

McJeff seems to me to be one of those people that isn't neccesarily stupid, but doesn't go too far to think.

Muslims are a group that it's 'in' to hate. Has been for awhile, but now it's more so. There are fundementalist Muslims that cause a lot of problems, but this is not the sum of Islam. Even if this was the majority of people, doesn't it stand to reason that the radicals should be seperated out from the non radicals?


Which was I'm sure when it was brought up was what the poster was trying to say. But instead, McJeff writes a long defensive post about why he feels he is right. There may be on the surface what seem to be good points, but in the end it's just more of the problem. Feeding into the violence.

I mean what, you don't think that the Terrorists feel like they aren't justified do you? Do you think that in many cases they have a pretty convincing argument to do you? They didn't just wake up one day and decided they hate America and are going to go on long elobrate plots to destroy it do you?


Here's the truth. All the extreme points of view think their side is the right one. The violent ones all think that they are justified in violence. Because of those actions, the other side thinks this justifies whatever they want. (And I do mean whatever). You can see this first hand. You have a bunch of Saudi's fly a plane into a building. So now some people say that we can blow up Iraq.


No, you don't resolve conflict with more conflict. If you where someone that could think deeper, you would understand this. You would also see that 'but there's no other way!' isn't a valid argument. Because you would actually believe in making the slightest bit of effort to find them.

Everywhere you look you've got some fat angry white guy yelling that 'we must do whatever is neccesary', but they don't do whatever is neccesary. They just blow up things. They only think hard about the best way to blow up things, and not look for answers.


You can give me extreme examples. You can rant and rave and yell that I'm wrong, but even though I may not be as loud or willing to beat up anyone that disagrees with me, I still believe pretty damn strongly in my cause too.


And that goes out to all the people that work hard to not need to be insightful. There are a lot of Liberals that do the same thing, but it's not nearly as much of a problem. And don't think that this is directed to everyone that's slightly to the right on the spectrum. Some of you I'm sure do look deep into things. Or rather, look further than the very surface.


And so McJeff (or anyone else for that matter) can make sure to get their crazy xenophobic retorts (I'm being generous in calling them retorts) ready, I'm Canadian. So brush up on those slurs and stereotypes! You should also tell the people that hate Canada to work harder at coming up with these things, because most of them really aren't all that offensive.

I very rarely say this, but... ditto.. what he said.

why of course they did. they want to kill all us westerners because they hate our freedom.


but on a serious note, your post defined my thoughts exactly. couldn't have put it better myself.

The way i see it they hate us because we don't submit to islam.
Islam as a whole is a imperialistic religion.
The prophet himself was a warlord who spread his faith by the sword.
The last century or so things had been calm because the last wars of muslim conquests had ended.
But to just say it's a religion of peace is just rubbish.
The quoran itself says it's ok to kill whoever opposes islamic expansion.

Out of all people the americans should be the least worried about muslims.
After all us Europeans have milions of muslims in our backyard who are colonizing our big citys at a fast pace.

Now to the Iraq war and George Bush.
Bush is nothing more but a mere puppet in the hands of the big American corporations.
The wars in the middle east have ZERO benefet for the American population.

On the contrary they drive up your taxes.
Your soldiers are dieing.
Al-qaida is having a field day recruiting hundreds of people in countrys like Iraq.
They were never able to gain a foothold in countrys like iraq before.
But since Sadam was overtrhrown it became a terrorist haven.
One murderous regime replaced by another.

I be no means support an idiot like Sadam ofcourse.
Just saying Bush is no better.

Btw i'm not a Lefty.
I'm a nationalist.
But i'm disgusted by how guileble American rightwingers are.
Trying to justify this loonatics action.