What is the Moral Objection to Contraception?

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Are Contraception, Onanism, and Masturbation Immoral?
Contraception, Onanism, and Masturbation are All Immoral 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Only Contraception and Onanism are Immoral 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only Contraception and Masturbation are Immoral 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only Onanism and Masturbation are Immoral 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only Contraception is Immoral 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only Onanism is Immoral 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Only Masturbation is Immoral 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Contraception, Onanism, and Masturbation are All Moral 96%  96%  [ 27 ]
Total votes : 28

Kraichgauer
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07 Feb 2012, 6:46 am

abacacus wrote:
I'm with Bill.

Give em some condoms and let 'em screw their brains out. It'll make the world a better place.


Thank you!

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



pandabear
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08 Feb 2012, 11:02 am

Well, now we have one vote from someone who thinks that ejaculant is icky, and should only be emitted when trying to impregnate a woman.

If you aren't w*king, then the material will either be reabsorbed by your body, or be emitted nocturnally, which can also be messy.

From what I understand, a regular outpouring of semen can help reduce the possibility of prostate troubles.



Kraichgauer
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08 Feb 2012, 3:53 pm

pandabear wrote:
Well, now we have one vote from someone who thinks that ejaculant is icky, and should only be emitted when trying to impregnate a woman.

If you aren't w*king, then the material will either be reabsorbed by your body, or be emitted nocturnally, which can also be messy.

From what I understand, a regular outpouring of semen can help reduce the possibility of prostate troubles.


Yes, ejaculation does apparently help in preventing prostate cancer. So guys, have SEX! Or if you don't have a sexual partner, then follow the advice of the late Michael Jackson, who sang - -

BEAT IT! JUST BEAT IT!


-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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08 Feb 2012, 7:18 pm

http://hnn.us/articles/696.html

Quote:
The belief that religious figures should be celibate began long before the birth of Christianity. Ancient Druid priests were thought to have been celibate and Aztec temple priests were expected to remain sexually abstinent. Other pre-Christian sects mandated that the people chosen for their sacrificial offerings must be pure, meaning that they had never engaged in sex.

Jesus lived a chaste life and never married and at one point in the Bible is referred to as a eunuch (Matthew 19:12). Many of his disciples were also chaste and celibate. Paul, in his first letter to the Corinthians, recommends celibacy for women:"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Cor. 7:8-9) But the early Christian church had no hard and fast rule against clergy marrying and having children. Peter, a Galilee fisherman, whom the Catholic Church considers the first Pope, was married. Some Popes were the sons of Popes.

The first written mandate requiring priests to be chaste came in AD 304. Canon 33 of the Council of Elvira stated that all"bishops, presbyters, and deacons and all other clerics" were to"abstain completely from their wives and not to have children." A short time later, in 325, the Council of Nicea, convened by Constantine, rejected a ban on priests marrying requested by Spanish clerics.

The practice of priestly celibacy began to spread in the Western Church in the early Middle Ages. In the early 11th century Pope Benedict VIII responded to the decline in priestly morality by issuing a rule prohibiting the children of priests from inheriting property. A few decades later Pope Gregory VII issued a decree against clerical marriages.

The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy in the twelfth century at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry. In 1563, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy.

Several explanations have been offered for the decision of the Church to adopt celibacy. Barry University's Ed Sunshine told Knight-Ridder that the policy was initiated to distinguish the clergy as a special group:"A celibate clergy became the paradigm of separation from the sinful world." A.W. Richard Sipe, a former priest and author of Sex, Priests and Power: The Anatomy of Crisis (1995), told Knight-Ridder that the"question at the time was who is the final power -- the king or the church. If [the church] could control a person's sex life, it could control their money, their employment, their benefice." Garry Wills suggested in Under God that the ban on marriage was adopted to lift the status of priests at a time when their authority was being challenged by nobles and others.

Protestants early on took exception to celibacy, arguing that it promoted masturbation, homosexuality and illicit fornication. Martin Luther singled out masturbation as one of the gravest offenses likely to be committed by those who were celibate."Nature never lets up," Luther warned,"we are all driven to the secret sin. To say it crudely but honestly, if it doesn't go into a woman, it goes into your shirt." American Protestants in the 17th century, fearful of radical religious sects like the Shakers that celebrated celibacy, came out foursquare against the practice.

The Roman Catholic Church's position today is derived from the Council of Trent. Celibacy is considered an important part of the priesthood, a sign of a priest's commitment to God and service. Today, though, there are some exceptions to the rule of unmarried clergy. Anglican ministers who were already married when they joined the Catholic Church are allowed to remain married if they choose to join the priesthood.

The Catholic Church distinguishes between dogma and regulations. The male-only priesthood is Catholic dogma, irreversible by papal decree. The ban on marriage is considered a regulation. As Knight-Ridder put it,"That means the pope could change it overnight if he wished."

The first modern scholar to make a comprehensive study of church celibacy was Henry Charles Lea over a century ago. Lea, a Protestant critical of the Catholic Church, closed his long book with the following statement:

We may be on the eve of great changes, but it is not easy to anticipate a change so radical as that which would permit the abolition of celibacy. The traditions of the past must first be forgotten; the hopes of the future must first be abandoned. The Latin church is the most wonderful structure in history, and ere its leaders can consent to such a reform they must confess that its career, so full of proud recollections, has been an error.


So, it would appear that Lutherans aren't supposed to masturbate, either.



Kraichgauer
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08 Feb 2012, 9:51 pm

pandabear wrote:
http://hnn.us/articles/696.html

Quote:
The belief that religious figures should be celibate began long before the birth of Christianity. Ancient Druid priests were thought to have been celibate and Aztec temple priests were expected to remain sexually abstinent. Other pre-Christian sects mandated that the people chosen for their sacrificial offerings must be pure, meaning that they had never engaged in sex.

Jesus lived a chaste life and never married and at one point in the Bible is referred to as a eunuch (Matthew 19:12). Many of his disciples were also chaste and celibate. Paul, in his first letter to the Corinthians, recommends celibacy for women:"To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion." (1 Cor. 7:8-9) But the early Christian church had no hard and fast rule against clergy marrying and having children. Peter, a Galilee fisherman, whom the Catholic Church considers the first Pope, was married. Some Popes were the sons of Popes.

The first written mandate requiring priests to be chaste came in AD 304. Canon 33 of the Council of Elvira stated that all"bishops, presbyters, and deacons and all other clerics" were to"abstain completely from their wives and not to have children." A short time later, in 325, the Council of Nicea, convened by Constantine, rejected a ban on priests marrying requested by Spanish clerics.

The practice of priestly celibacy began to spread in the Western Church in the early Middle Ages. In the early 11th century Pope Benedict VIII responded to the decline in priestly morality by issuing a rule prohibiting the children of priests from inheriting property. A few decades later Pope Gregory VII issued a decree against clerical marriages.

The Church was a thousand years old before it definitively took a stand in favor of celibacy in the twelfth century at the Second Lateran Council held in 1139, when a rule was approved forbidding priests to marry. In 1563, the Council of Trent reaffirmed the tradition of celibacy.

Several explanations have been offered for the decision of the Church to adopt celibacy. Barry University's Ed Sunshine told Knight-Ridder that the policy was initiated to distinguish the clergy as a special group:"A celibate clergy became the paradigm of separation from the sinful world." A.W. Richard Sipe, a former priest and author of Sex, Priests and Power: The Anatomy of Crisis (1995), told Knight-Ridder that the"question at the time was who is the final power -- the king or the church. If [the church] could control a person's sex life, it could control their money, their employment, their benefice." Garry Wills suggested in Under God that the ban on marriage was adopted to lift the status of priests at a time when their authority was being challenged by nobles and others.

Protestants early on took exception to celibacy, arguing that it promoted masturbation, homosexuality and illicit fornication. Martin Luther singled out masturbation as one of the gravest offenses likely to be committed by those who were celibate."Nature never lets up," Luther warned,"we are all driven to the secret sin. To say it crudely but honestly, if it doesn't go into a woman, it goes into your shirt." American Protestants in the 17th century, fearful of radical religious sects like the Shakers that celebrated celibacy, came out foursquare against the practice.

The Roman Catholic Church's position today is derived from the Council of Trent. Celibacy is considered an important part of the priesthood, a sign of a priest's commitment to God and service. Today, though, there are some exceptions to the rule of unmarried clergy. Anglican ministers who were already married when they joined the Catholic Church are allowed to remain married if they choose to join the priesthood.

The Catholic Church distinguishes between dogma and regulations. The male-only priesthood is Catholic dogma, irreversible by papal decree. The ban on marriage is considered a regulation. As Knight-Ridder put it,"That means the pope could change it overnight if he wished."

The first modern scholar to make a comprehensive study of church celibacy was Henry Charles Lea over a century ago. Lea, a Protestant critical of the Catholic Church, closed his long book with the following statement:

We may be on the eve of great changes, but it is not easy to anticipate a change so radical as that which would permit the abolition of celibacy. The traditions of the past must first be forgotten; the hopes of the future must first be abandoned. The Latin church is the most wonderful structure in history, and ere its leaders can consent to such a reform they must confess that its career, so full of proud recollections, has been an error.


So, it would appear that Lutherans aren't supposed to masturbate, either.


You know, the issue of masturbation has never come up at church. But even if there was some sort of prohibition, I doubt any of us Lutherans would actually pay a whole lot of attention to it.
And in all honesty to me, Luther sounded like he was writing more in tongue-in-cheek, which he often did with as much earthy humor as possible.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



pandabear
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09 Feb 2012, 11:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
And in all honesty to me, Luther sounded like he was writing more in tongue-in-cheek, which he often did with as much earthy humor as possible.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Oh, okay. If you look at it that way, then he was hilarious. :lmao: He was putting his life on the line, but he was just as good as Stephen Colbert. :lmao:

But, speaking of masturbation, I wonder if the Catholic Church and others have a similar thing about female masturbation?

The Moslem guy above did provide a rather practical view for an unmarried moslem woman, but a woman who is already married wouldn't have anything to worry about.

The Bible doesn't say anything against Lesbianism--it is only male homosexuality that gets the Lord huffy.

As I understand it, Catholics just don't want men to emit sperm that isn't going to be used to impregnate their wives.

A woman ovulates every month. She can't do anything but waste an ovum if her husband doesn't bang her at the right moment.

If you look, for example, at King Solomon's 300 wives and 700 concubines: on average, a member of his Copulation Cabinet would have to wait more than 3 years between refreshments. Were they really expected not to pleasure themselves, nor each other, in the mean time? Such a restriction would be unaccountably cruel.



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09 Feb 2012, 11:45 am

pandabear wrote:
The Bible doesn't say anything against Lesbianism--it is only male homosexuality that gets the Lord huffy.


Paul rants about women who "exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, in the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" in Romans 1:26. After adding things like gossipping and arrogance to the list of things that get his toga in a bunch, he concludes in Rom. 1:32 "they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death ..."

I guess that explains why the Catholic Church is strongly against UN protections for gay Ugandans and gays from other countries where homosexuals are killed by homophobic regimes.
(See http://queersunited.blogspot.com/2008/1 ... g-gay.html )
Protecting gays from being killed "could lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage". :roll: I wonder if they would also support the death sentence for gossiping, arrogance and boasting, seeing that Paul condemns this as sharply as homosexuality.



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09 Feb 2012, 12:18 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
Paul rants about women who "exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, in the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another" in Romans 1:26. After adding things like gossipping and arrogance to the list of things that get his toga in a bunch, he concludes in Rom. 1:32 "they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death ..."


Okay, but if you look at the broader context of the passage

Romans 1 wrote:
God's anger is revealed from heaven against all the sin and evil of the people whose evil ways prevent the truth from being known. God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain. Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all! They know God, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness. They say they are wise, but they are fools; instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortals or birds or animals or reptiles.

And so God has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other. They exchange the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen.

Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts. In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.

Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do. They are filled with all kinds of wickedness, evil, greed, and vice; they are full of jealousy, murder, fighting, deceit, and malice. They gossip and speak evil of one another; they are hateful to God, insolent, proud, and boastful; they think of more ways to do evil; they disobey their parents; they have no conscience; they do not keep their promises, and they show no kindness or pity for others. They know that God's law says that people who live in this way deserve death. Yet, not only do they continue to do these very things, but they even approve of others who do them.


Catholics aren't going to read this, because it condemns image-worship. God caused them to turn to masturbation and homosexuality as punishment for worshipping images.

Paul is probably the Bible's biggest killjoy. He is the only one who regards female masturbation and Lesbianism as wrong. Possibly the other authors of the Bible were unaware that such a thing could happen, or didn't perceive anything wrong with it.

It is also possible that Paul possessed more knowledge of female anatomy than most members of the Catholic hierarchy.



Kraichgauer
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09 Feb 2012, 12:43 pm

pandabear wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And in all honesty to me, Luther sounded like he was writing more in tongue-in-cheek, which he often did with as much earthy humor as possible.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Oh, okay. If you look at it that way, then he was hilarious. :lmao: He was putting his life on the line, but he was just as good as Stephen Colbert. :lmao:

But, speaking of masturbation, I wonder if the Catholic Church and others have a similar thing about female masturbation?

The Moslem guy above did provide a rather practical view for an unmarried moslem woman, but a woman who is already married wouldn't have anything to worry about.

The Bible doesn't say anything against Lesbianism--it is only male homosexuality that gets the Lord huffy.

As I understand it, Catholics just don't want men to emit sperm that isn't going to be used to impregnate their wives.

A woman ovulates every month. She can't do anything but waste an ovum if her husband doesn't bang her at the right moment.

If you look, for example, at King Solomon's 300 wives and 700 concubines: on average, a member of his Copulation Cabinet would have to wait more than 3 years between refreshments. Were they really expected not to pleasure themselves, nor each other, in the mean time? Such a restriction would be unaccountably cruel.


Yes, Luther employed a great deal of earthy humor in his writings - that is until later in life when his ill physical health caught up with his mental state, and he just started acting crazy, and was just no longer fun, but added an extra burden on us Lutherans to keep apologizing for him. :evil:

An trust me, I have absolutely no objection to female masturbation - a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do! Plus it's fun for guys to watch, too! :twisted:

Regarding the Muslim guy ranting about female masturbation - a comparison with Paul can be made, as both were products of a very misogynistic, and prudish Middle Eastern culture, despite a separation of two thousand years.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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09 Feb 2012, 1:42 pm

If the Bible contains passages that might lend themselves to interpretations of being prudish and misogynistic, then aren't modern Christians obliged to be prudish and misogynistic?



Kraichgauer
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09 Feb 2012, 2:28 pm

pandabear wrote:
If the Bible contains passages that might lend themselves to interpretations of being prudish and misogynistic, then aren't modern Christians obliged to be prudish and misogynistic?


I suppose it's up to the individual Christian. But I would prefer not to be, as I think our culture has morally outdistanced them a long time ago.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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11 Feb 2012, 11:11 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbKAlpbzASU[/youtube]

It looks like the Catholics regard masturbation as being almost as bad a murder.



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03 Mar 2012, 10:39 am

If you've heard anything about the Rush Limbaugh/Sandra Fluke story, it seems that many "Conservatives" regard contraception as equivalent to prostitution. If a husband bones his wife, and she is using contraceptives, then he is only boning her for fun, and the wife is functioning as a prostitute.

At least Mrs. Limbaugh doesn't have to worry about contraception and being labeled a prostitute.


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03 Mar 2012, 5:12 pm

pandabear wrote:
If you've heard anything about the Rush Limbaugh/Sandra Fluke story, it seems that many "Conservatives" regard contraception as equivalent to prostitution. If a husband bones his wife, and she is using contraceptives, then he is only boning her for fun, and the wife is functioning as a prostitute.

At least Mrs. Limbaugh doesn't have to worry about contraception and being labeled a prostitute.


:lol: for that last part, regarding Mrs. Limbaugh - who gets so much sex from him. :twisted:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Mar 2012, 5:39 pm

I'm going to "hell" *lol*


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