Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
09 Feb 2012, 10:50 pm
09 Feb 2012, 11:24 pm
09 Feb 2012, 11:39 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
The Democrats aren't perfect, but they certainly have a better record than the Republicans. It's not just corporate and government corruption, but rather the obscene worship of trickle down economics that the Republicans are responsible for that has hurt so many of us not in the 1%.
You mean compared to "Obamanomics" where when Wall Street is prospering, that money somehow trickles down to the poor?
But seriously, I think we both agree that giving the wealthy carte blanche to do whatever they want with impunity doesn't always bring desirable results to the poor and working class.
Kraichgauer wrote:
And for your information, being middle class is based on income, because my family, while I was growing up, had it made as a middle class family, despite being blue collar.
Well... Yes and no. There's more to it than just income. There are also other factors such as level of education and the exact nature of your work. That's why I said you can be "blue collar," make a sustainable wage yet still be working class by virtue of the type of work you do.
Quote:
On top of that, I have yet to see a Republican in recent memory display the slightest concern for working class people, other than to attempt to divide them on racial grounds, or to pit private sector employees against their public sector counterparts in order to divide and conquer.
But how hard are you really looking?
A good place to start would be GovTrack.
09 Feb 2012, 11:45 pm
CoMF wrote:
abacacus wrote:
10% is *not* a small amount. That isn't "not much", that's pretty big.
I was being facetious. Having a public debt to GDP ratio 10% less than that of the United States is arguably a very good thing. Bear in mind, however, that the public debt to GDP ratio is a gauge of the likelihood of a government default. A debt/GDP ratio of 83.95% is not exactly reassuring.
For argument's sake, let's assume that a comprehensive social safety net like the Canadian model would be the most adaptable to the United States. When you consider that Canada devotes a signifigant portion of government spending to comprehensive social programs for a population a little more than a tenth of that of the United States, and try to apply that same system to a population of over 300 million people, things don't look quite so rosy.
You don't seem to be factoring in that not only do you have ten times (and change) the amount of people to cover, but also ten times the amount of people who pay taxes
If America, tomorrow, implemented an exact replica of Canadian economics (down to sales tax in every state and what have you) you'd see essentially the same results Canada is getting now (with a few differences).
Neither system is perfect, but Socialism is better
artrat
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Location: The Butthole of the American Empire
10 Feb 2012, 12:00 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2012, 12:04 am
CoMF wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
The Democrats aren't perfect, but they certainly have a better record than the Republicans. It's not just corporate and government corruption, but rather the obscene worship of trickle down economics that the Republicans are responsible for that has hurt so many of us not in the 1%.
You mean compared to "Obamanomics" where when Wall Street is prospering, that money somehow trickles down to the poor?
But seriously, I think we both agree that giving the wealthy carte blanche to do whatever they want with impunity doesn't always bring desirable results to the poor and working class.
Kraichgauer wrote:
And for your information, being middle class is based on income, because my family, while I was growing up, had it made as a middle class family, despite being blue collar.
Well... Yes and no. There's more to it than just income. There are also other factors such as level of education and the exact nature of your work. That's why I said you can be "blue collar," make a sustainable wage yet still be working class by virtue of the type of work you do.
Quote:
On top of that, I have yet to see a Republican in recent memory display the slightest concern for working class people, other than to attempt to divide them on racial grounds, or to pit private sector employees against their public sector counterparts in order to divide and conquer.
But how hard are you really looking?
A good place to start would be GovTrack.
I'd hardly blame Obama for the dismantling of the regulations which protect us from Wall Street. That came to us under the Republican's watch. It's the Republicans who are bitching that the president is trying to destroy capitalism by bringing back regulations, and allowing Americans to reap the benefits of the free market, rather than just the 1%.
Well to do working class or middle class - just the same, it's mostly the Republicans who are decreasing their numbers everyday.
And if there are any Republicans who give a damn about Americans beyond the wealthy and corporations, please enlighten me by naming them.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
10 Feb 2012, 12:06 am
Obama
10 Feb 2012, 12:19 am
abacacus wrote:
You don't seem to be factoring in that not only do you have ten times (and change) the amount of people to cover, but also ten times the amount of people who pay taxes
If America, tomorrow, implemented an exact replica of Canadian economics (down to sales tax in every state and what have you) you'd see essentially the same results Canada is getting now (with a few differences).
Neither system is perfect, but Socialism is better
If America, tomorrow, implemented an exact replica of Canadian economics (down to sales tax in every state and what have you) you'd see essentially the same results Canada is getting now (with a few differences).
Neither system is perfect, but Socialism is better
Yeah, but you need working people making more than a livable wage to collect enough in tax revenue to keep such a system viable, something which is a major obstacle in the U.S. right now.
Also, I'm more enamored by the Swedish model of Socialism than the Canadian one, FWIW.
10 Feb 2012, 12:23 am
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2012, 12:37 am
10 Feb 2012, 12:37 am
CoMF wrote:
abacacus wrote:
You don't seem to be factoring in that not only do you have ten times (and change) the amount of people to cover, but also ten times the amount of people who pay taxes
If America, tomorrow, implemented an exact replica of Canadian economics (down to sales tax in every state and what have you) you'd see essentially the same results Canada is getting now (with a few differences).
Neither system is perfect, but Socialism is better
If America, tomorrow, implemented an exact replica of Canadian economics (down to sales tax in every state and what have you) you'd see essentially the same results Canada is getting now (with a few differences).
Neither system is perfect, but Socialism is better
Yeah, but you need working people making more than a livable wage to collect enough in tax revenue to keep such a system viable, something which is a major obstacle in the U.S. right now.
Also, I'm more enamored by the Swedish model of Socialism than the Canadian one, FWIW.
True.
I was only using a Canada as a basic example, our system is far from perfect
10 Feb 2012, 1:30 am
Kraichgauer
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2012, 2:32 am
10 Feb 2012, 2:47 am
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
10 Feb 2012, 2:59 am
abacacus wrote:
That's very true Bill (if I may call you Bill).
If I was American, I would vote for Obama, but you can't deny he hasn't done nearly as much as he could have.
If I was American, I would vote for Obama, but you can't deny he hasn't done nearly as much as he could have.
No disagreement from me.
And yes, you may call me Bill.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
10 Feb 2012, 4:10 am
