Don't you think Ted Haggard was stupid

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Well, somehow it happends that people who are born in different societies take different things for granted. For example muslim suicide bombers are sure that they are doing the right thing. The point is that whatever you feel is right or wrong was taught to you since you were a couple of months old, so you are used to taking it for granted all your life. Now, why does it coincide with biblical principles? Because you happened to be born in Christian country rather than muslim one. Thus, the ultimate source of all that you know is the bible.so your saying to me that people who grow up chirstians are using homosexuality as a suicide bomber tactic. since they cant strap on a stick of bombs to there chest to prove a point. wonderful.

next question, "but the men remember what jesus said" well thats great, i dont trust what men say, i havent then and i dont now. theres not much difference between then and now. understand?

Last edited by richardbenson on 08 Nov 2006, 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Because in the first century, they also believed in their faith, as much as you do now. That still does not mean that their beliefs were based on something that is true. It only means that they thought it was true. And they probably did believe things, just as many Christians see some of today's events and consider them as miracles from God.



You're right. And that's why I like science more than Christianity. Science and Christianity are both used to explain past events, and to predict future events. However, the basis of science changes as more information is received, and evidence that contradicts the scientific theories arises. Science undergoes peer review. Christianity does not have this flexibility; when there is evidence to contradict the Christian faith and/or the Bible, then the evidence is immediately declared invalid, and the Bible is supposed to be 100% correct. But with that kind of thinking, there is nothing that could successfully contradict the Bible, even if the entire premise of the Bible is mistaken.


Then why did God create 500+ species of animals that have homosexual sex? That arose from the Original Sin as well?

Not necessarily. There are many ancient archaeological artifacts, but you don't assume that every religious reference in them is true. This is particularly the case of the non-Christian religious artifacts. Why should we believe the Dead Sea scrolls and not any of the other artifacts?

stinkypuppy just stop arguing with him, since he wont shut up. hes wrong i've proved him so many times. hes been fed some BS thats unbelievable thats for shure

Last edited by richardbenson on 08 Nov 2006, 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Oh I know, I'm just bored.

im shure jesus was the son of god. but i dont believe a darn thing a man wrote about him

Given that everyone traces their ancestry to Adam and Eve, obviously the forefathers of ppl of other religions had a chance to hear God of the bible. Then at some point they went their own way, but still some of the principles passed from generation to generation.



Once agian, only if you are in a context of monogamous society. In polygamous one the prostitution won't be that bad since ppl are having many wives to start with and it doesn't ruin anything.



Being naked in public is even more degrading, yet it wasn't the case in old pagan societies. So perhaps prostitution is also degrading strictly in CHRISTIAN society.



It makes ppl question the bible. If there were no homosexuals, we wouldn't be having this argument.



As we have seen on example of Ted Haggard, some "christians" can lie. So may be gay Chrisitans also lie, by pretending to think that bible condones gay sex while they themselves know otherwise.



Even though Zionist movement dates back to at least 19-th century, it never had an objection to accomplish its goals within ONE DAY -- there were no conceivable way of doing it. But the bible taught it had to happen within ONE DAY. And it was fulfilled by NATO conference that gave Israel to Jews, and the conference indeed lasted one day. Now its goal had nothing to do with fulfilling a prophecy.

As far as people living in Israel fulfilling prophecies, this isn't it either, since for one thing 90% of them are atheist. On the other hand, as far as religious Jews go, they have a huge controversy as to whether Israel has biblical basis given that Messiah haven't come. The people who konw that Messiah has already came are Christians, so ironically Christian Fundamentalists have much stronger consensus on the whole Israel-prophecy business than Jews do. BUT for all I know they don't go to Israel and make the lend fertile FOR the Jews. So the bottom line is that UNBELIEVING Jews fulfilled it all on their own.



Beef is also source of protein but it has far less toxic elements acumulated in it. I don't think there are any dietologists who would tell you to eat pork as opposed to beef.



Being able to live is not a gift from dictator since he didn't create you. God did.



Like I said God also offers a chance to forgiveness. Dictator doesn't.



Fine, lets compare dictator and God.

SIMILARITIES: They both punish you for not doing things their way

DIFFERENCES: God can change your heart, but dictator can't

So, dictator can't change who you are, he merely forces you from outside to do certain things DESPITE of who you are. So THAT is wrong.

On the toher hand, with God, you FIRST pray for him to change who you are, and then you can act differently in accordence with different you. So you would no longer be acting against your will.

That is actually a point of the whole concept of being born agian and works verses grace. If you insist on being the same person and merely do what God wants you to do because you want to, that would be "salvation by works" and it is preached AGAINST in New Testament PRECISELY because it makes God into dictator. On the other hand if you FIRST pray to God and have FAITH that he changes you and then act differently as you change, that is salvation by GRACE, and thats much better.



As far as diseases you can use condom. Well of course no condoms are totally safe, but I imagine even if they were, you still won't be going to prostitutes. If you don't want to have sex just to have sex, then it means that sexual drive isn't that hard to overcome. So I suggesst that gays do the same.

Like I said first century christians were severely persecutted AND KILLED by Romans. Why would they do it for the sake of something that THEY KNOW is a lie?

uh no? do we have to go here i again? i hope not

why do democrats and republicans have elections?

No, back then they were saying they SAW Jesus rising, etc. Right now I would have to be 2000 year old in order for it to be that easy.



They either saw jesus rising or they didn't. There is no room to be "wrong" here.



Agree so far




Christianity undergoese peer review TOO, there are more and more denominations. Furthermore, like I said I don't follow ANY of the men's opinion, I just read bible for myself so I do A LOT of rewising of popular views.



In science I can ask similar question. The fact that our brain is a bunch of neurons implies that we might be hardwired to think that 2+2=5 which would render all of our basic axioms invalid. Yet, we continue to assume that everything that our brain tells us (such as 2+2=4) is correct.



Likewise in science nothing can successfully contradict your brain.




Animals do plenty of things that you would consider "wrong" on humanistic basis, such as the fact that they kill each other. So the point is that God put higher responsibility on men than on animals.

The Jews didn't just randomly choose Israel as their new home after the Holocaust. There was a religious basis behind it - Jews believed, based on religious teachings, that Israel was given to them by God.


*rolls eyes*

Only you can change your heart. You ultimately make the decision to become Christian on your own after reading the Bible and evaluating its merits.


I didn't come to this board to be preached to. I expected better from an Aspie (i.e. rational and nonconformist) board, but apparently Aspies can be just as bad as NTs. Continuing this discussion obviously won't solve anything because we don't have any common ground from which to have a debate, so let's just end this crap.

Yes, religious teaching is the reason why Israel was given to Jews but its NOT why it was given WITHIN ONE DAY which also happened to fulfill prophecise.



Since you never been Christian, you don't know that. And bringing particular Christians, like Ted Haggard, won't help you either becaues they aren't true Christians. Whether or not someone is true Christian is between a person and God so the only one whom you can know FOR SURE to be true christian is yourself. Thus, the only time when you are in a position to say what is it like to be Christian is when you are one yourself, which you aren't.



If you go back to the first page of this thread, you will find that I never intended to preach. My original goal was to do a SECULAR discussion about psychology of Ted Haggard, nothing more nothing less. The first move was made by yourself at the fifth response from the end of the first page, and by richardbenson at the very last response in the first page. In fact, I have recently made another posst about Ted Haggard just to get on topic, so this shows you that indeed that is what I wanted to talk about; I weren't making any excuses to start to preach or anything like that. Now, if I were to come to one of your threads on another topic and start to question why are you atheist, most likely you would start to defend your position, right? That is exactly what I did.



If we are going to talk whehter or not I am rational, then again it would be "preaching" so I won't go into that. If we are going to talk about my being "nonconformist", then consider that my interpretations of the bible are very different from others, for instance I rejecct trinity. Besides, the whole idea of Christianity was non-conformist on the first place since I was raised Jewish.



There are other Christian aspies on this board, I am not the only one.



If you don't want to talk, that is fine; for one thing there might still be a hope of going back to the Ted Haggard discussion which was the original intention of the thread. Like I said, the ONLY thing I was doing was responding to other ppl's objections.

returning to the original topic

Haggard's a tard and deserves everything he gets.
Y'wanna put yourself in a position of authority, you'd damned well best be prepared to be held to a higher standard.

*sigh*

I always have this problem. I just don't know how to argue without alienating people. And I'm sorry for hijacking your topic.

And who knows? Maybe I'll become Christian someday. But it's not going to happen unless I see a rational explanation of why I should be one.

No worries, you haven't allienated me. I often do similar things without noticing, so I totally understand.



Your appology is accepted



I wish you good luck there.