Sinn Fein wants referendum on Irish unification

Post Reply New Topic

If you read back along the thread, it is about unifying Ireland.

If you read, xenon's post he is directly replying to a point I made, about unifying Ireland.

The discussion is all about unifying Ireland so I'm a little confused as to why you decided to jump in and pretend that it's all about becoming Taoiseach and nothing to do with unifying Ireland?!

You're talking about an Irish king from a thousand years ago?

A thousand years ago, Ireland was an island of fiefdoms.

There has never been a truly united and unified Ireland. It was united from 1800-1921 but that was under the Union Jack and it was resented by many of the Irish and for good reason.



Absolutely. How many notable Protestant members of Sinn Féin are there in Northern Ireland? Answer: none. There are Protestant nationalists but they tend to want little to do with SF, just like Catholic supporters of the Union want little to do with hardline Protestant Unionist parties.

Politics in Northern Ireland is very sectarian and polarised. The moderate political parties have little support politically.



Exactly. Ireland and the Northern Irish region of the UK are two seperate sovereign states. Having SF in government in the Republic will almost certainly be very, very injurious to peace on the island of Ireland due to their history, especially if they start throwing their weight about. I hope the people of the Republic are sensible enough not to let that happen.

Xenon's post, though in reply to yours, was about the growing popularity of Sinn Fein in the Republic. You responded by saying that Sinn Fein can't win Protestant votes, which doesn't really matter in a country where +80% of the population is Catholic.
I am well aware of what the thread is about, and I do read books, and I do have a vague notion of the outline of Irish history.

But SF's main goal is reuniting Ireland (i.e. the island). They can't do that due to their sectarian nature and their responsibility for the deaths of thousands.

There are things SF could do within the Republic to move things in that general direction, though. Dropping Catholicism as the national religion, bringing jobs into the country, and building highways, for example. Holding the office of Taoiseach would give them more legitimacy in the eyes of the world, and a greater chance to bring attention to their cause, as well.

But it doesn't really matter if they gain power in the Republic. The people who decide Northern Ireland's future constitutional status are the people of Northern Ireland (and them getting anywhere near power in the Republic is likely to lead to much worse relations between NI's Unionists and the Republic). Simple as that - SF getting anywhere near power in the Republic is likely to kill off all hopes of a UI for a very, very long time.

As I've pointed out to people, voting/supporting SF is the worst thing you could possibly do if you are serious about a genuine UI.

If Northern Ireland's Unionists see the Republic's people electing the former political wing of PIRA, what will they think about a United Ireland? Two words: No Surrender.

Even if the ROI became secular and prosperous?

Yup, that and more. Would the 12th July be a national holiday? Would they be happy for Orange parades to go right through the centre of Dublin? Would they welcome the Queen back as head of state and have it as a national emblem? Would they change the flag and anthem ("Saxon foes") to something more inclusive? Would they rejoin the Commonwealth? Would they have a devolved administration? Would people be able to keep their British passports and would British citizenship be available to all Irish citizens that want it?

A lot of people in Northern Ireland do not want to be part of a UI, largely because terrorist organisations have tried to force it on them in recent memory. Protestants haven't exactly been well-treated in the Republic post-independence either - their number has dwindled.

SF being in office in the Republic would be a major part of the problem because of who they are. The stance of the moderate nationalist parties in the Republic is where it's at - i.e. leaving the United Ireland issue well alone apart from in a theoretical sense and building friendships and welcoming Unionists down south to show them what they're about - that they're a liberal, secular state who don't mean them any harm. The principle of consent and that building better relationships between the peoples of the two jurisdictions is better than obsessing about a UI.

Unification simply isn't a major priority apart from with the same special-interest factions that would be obsessed with it no matter what the situation anyway.

Realistically, this is about as likely as the Taliban dropping the Islam thing and concentrating on turning Afghanistan into a liberal secular democracy.
Has Hamas gained any legitimacy in the eyes of the world because it won an election?
Is a peaceful solution to the palestine problem any closer because because Hamas now has political power in the Gaza strip?

The Taliban and Hamas both have religious goals. Sinn Fein has nationalistic goals. I don't think advancing the spread of Catholicism is on their agenda.

Dude what the hell "romantic ideas about the IRA' Since your living in california, i guess the next time you see a soldiers family who lost a loved one in afghanistan you should probably tell them you have romantic ideas about the taliban. The ira was nothing more than a terrorist gang, that went around killing women and children without thought or hindrance, pretending otherwise is an affront to the dead. I really doubt with your romanticisation of the ira you would find that a united ireland would particularly welcome you. Technically ireland is united, under the banner of the EUSSR. i just really can't believe you can view the ira with anything other than contempt.

Ireland was unifed before the english and brits showed up and crashed the party.

When? Ireland has never been united as a proper single, cohesive and self-governing nation. Ireland was ruled by clans - and the original invasion of Ireland wasn't by the English or British but actually by the Normans (who also invaded England, don't forget)! In fact, the only time that united was united was in the United Kingdom. I really don't think you have a clue about Irish history.

it was during the times of tribes in Irleand. Sure it wasn't a self-governing nation but they still got along just fine. With out the Brits and the English who love colonizing things.

The cult of nationalism amongst many Sinn Féiners isn't dissimilar to the cult of religion espoused by the religious types.

No sensible person who wants a UI would vote SF. The moderate Nationalist (and Unionist) parties have the right idea, but moderate politics has little support in NI. The Republic of Ireland is making the groundwork towards better relations between North and South, and relations between the two jurisdictions are actually very good. People in the Republic supporting SF in large numbers will jeopardise all that.

You couldn't be more wrong about that. Go on (youtube) you will find a lot of people, that live in Ireland! that support Sinn Fein' and Gerry Adams