For Christians - Is the world going to hell?

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Longshanks
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23 Jun 2012, 2:09 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The only uneducated people I see are Lord Gareth and you.


"I know you are but what am I!! !" Your retorts are pathetic, Longshanks. And please, keep trying with that use of the appeal to authority, claiming all kinds of impressive credentials, it really helps all your "arguments"

Longshanks wrote:
Jews were not the only religion persecuted by Hitler, as Lutheran Pastor Leon Bonhoeffer (Spelling?) and Hitler's private secretary, Gertrude Junge could both testify to. Junge herself stated that Hitler may have been raised Catholic, but was an ardent athiest and clearly intended that athiesn should be the only belief in the Third Reich.


You are simply restating a controversial and not widely accepted internet meme spread by Christian conservatives. Jews were not the only persecuted ones though, that is correct

Longshanks wrote:
Bonhoeffer and many other pastors were victims of Hitler's concentration camps. Stalin was an ardent athiest - as were Lenin and Trotsky. All three stated very plainly in their various manifestos that religion of any kind had no place in the Communist State and that atheism was the only accepted "spiritual belief." Mao Tse Tung was even more fervent yet - or have you not read Mao's little red book?

Longshanks


Atheism (learn to spell it, someday) is not a spiritual belief, Longshanks

You're right, most communists don't like religion and worked to stop its influence in society, often through violence. So therefore all atheists = communists? Your grasp of the history and politics of these nations is pre-undergraduate, which is why I will maintain you are a dishonest and uneducated theofascist who attempts to quash debate through weak appeals to authority and who's best comebacks all seem to amount to "No you are!"

You history dilettantes who like to try and paint atheism and communism together irrevocably seem to like to forget how much communism was supported by various church figures in South America


I state it as it is - without the revisionist history that you rely on - and I view your responses to be all the more pathetic than you view mine. So let's just agree to disagree.

Longshanks


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23 Jun 2012, 2:20 pm

Longshanks wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The only uneducated people I see are Lord Gareth and you.


"I know you are but what am I!! !" Your retorts are pathetic, Longshanks. And please, keep trying with that use of the appeal to authority, claiming all kinds of impressive credentials, it really helps all your "arguments"

Longshanks wrote:
Jews were not the only religion persecuted by Hitler, as Lutheran Pastor Leon Bonhoeffer (Spelling?) and Hitler's private secretary, Gertrude Junge could both testify to. Junge herself stated that Hitler may have been raised Catholic, but was an ardent athiest and clearly intended that athiesn should be the only belief in the Third Reich.


You are simply restating a controversial and not widely accepted internet meme spread by Christian conservatives. Jews were not the only persecuted ones though, that is correct

Longshanks wrote:
Bonhoeffer and many other pastors were victims of Hitler's concentration camps. Stalin was an ardent athiest - as were Lenin and Trotsky. All three stated very plainly in their various manifestos that religion of any kind had no place in the Communist State and that atheism was the only accepted "spiritual belief." Mao Tse Tung was even more fervent yet - or have you not read Mao's little red book?

Longshanks


Atheism (learn to spell it, someday) is not a spiritual belief, Longshanks

You're right, most communists don't like religion and worked to stop its influence in society, often through violence. So therefore all atheists = communists? Your grasp of the history and politics of these nations is pre-undergraduate, which is why I will maintain you are a dishonest and uneducated theofascist who attempts to quash debate through weak appeals to authority and who's best comebacks all seem to amount to "No you are!"

You history dilettantes who like to try and paint atheism and communism together irrevocably seem to like to forget how much communism was supported by various church figures in South America


I state it as it is - without the revisionist history that you rely on - and I view your responses to be all the more pathetic than you view mine. So let's just agree to disagree.

Longshanks


"I know you are, but what am I?!" again. Great retort, simply great

Which revisionist history is that? You are speaking out of ignorance. You are simply unaware of the full scope of the situations you refer to yet still choose to come to conclusions based on extremely limited data. This is a trend you seem to enjoy following.

For instance, you claim Hitler killed because of his atheism, yet you also seem unaware that Hitler persecuted atheists and was against secularism

I am sure Conservapedia or whatever other intellectual cesspit you use as your primary learning resource is happy with your progress


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simon_says
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23 Jun 2012, 2:23 pm

Are the end times near again? Someone needs to send a map over. They get so close but never quite arrive.

Quote:
Funny you should mention that. I was raised a liberal secular athiest. I find liberals and athiests, as I experienced them, to be vain, selfish, cruel, petty, and sadistic, and I find the historic actions of most liberals and athiests to be similar (and their modern actions to be motivated by ethically irresponsible ignorance and hate). That's what propelled me into Christianity.

Shame liberalism and atheism is filled with so many incompetent morons, but what're ya gonna do, right?


So atheists are "vain, selfish, cruel, petty, and sadistic"? And " filled with so many incompetent morons"?

Well, it sounds like christ really made a difference in your life. He filled your heart brother. With what, I do not know. Keep on living the example of the power of Christ.



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23 Jun 2012, 4:47 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
There is an excess of averice, and it has got us into this economic mess that is causing misery.
There is a lot of gluttony because westerners are always over eating. The west consumes most of the world, and a lot of it is wasted.
There is a lot of pride and people think is a virtue!
There is a lot of anger brewing which is stoked by fear and the grim recognition that our greed is our undoing. Everyone blames each other.
There is a lot of lust - young people are conditioned with lust in pop videos, and the media sells everything via lust
There is a lot of envy - our economic system promotes envious people who are always trying to do better than the next man
There is a lot of sloth - everything has been made so easy for us that we need do next to nothing to survive. Even the rich are lazy because they make more and more money by doing less and less. The
hard working are never rewarded.

How does it feel for Christians to see a world like this? Or do you see it this way at all?


It is really not important to know what individual Christians feel about the world. It is better to see this world from the viewpoint of Jehovah God through the pages of his Word, the Bible. I would liked to share these scriptures. This first scripture reads like today's headline.

(2 Timothy 3:1-5) But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God — having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

And why do people worldwide act like this?

(1 John 5:19) We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one (Satan the Devil).

Under Satan's control - or influence - the following happens.

(2 Corinthians 4:3,4) If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Satan has successfully blinded billions of people away from a future that is made available to all by Jehovah God by means of Christ Jesus' death. For the most part humans have not reconciled themselves to Jehovah God. Sure they go to church or some other religious services but as 2 Timothy 3:5 states they "[have] a form of godliness but [deny] its power." Many could care less about fulfilling their spiritual needs or taking in accurate knowledge of Jehovah God, his son, and the wonderful hope for a future. (Matthew 5:3; John 17:3; Titus 1:1) They go to church perhaps to find business contacts, or to meet new people. Perhaps they go to church to pick up dates. But to fill a spiritual need? No.

Contrast this with true Christians. They would be easily identified by the Godly qualities they exhibit. The foremost of these qualities is love. Jesus said, “By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) This love is not the world's definition of love. It is more than mere surface emotion. It goes deep. It is the kind of love that puts your brother and sister ahead of your own wellbeing. Besides love the other Godly qualities are “joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control.” (Galatians 5:22,23) Jesus also said that "love of neighbor" is one of the greatest commands. As a Christian and one of Jehovah's Witness it is out of love of neighbor that the bible-based message is delivered to individuals wherever we can find them in order to give them the hope of a wonderful future they so desperately need. Our exulted king Jesus Christ, ruling Jehovah God's kingdom, will bring relief from all kinds of problems that plague humanity today. Revelation 21:4 mentions a handful of things God's heavenly kingdom, or government, will accomplish: No more mourning, no more outcry, no more pain, and even death will be done away with. What government today can promise these things?


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and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.
The former things have passed away."


slave
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26 Jun 2012, 6:00 pm

kxmode wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
There is an excess of averice, and it has got us into this economic mess that is causing misery.
There is a lot of gluttony because westerners are always over eating. The west consumes most of the world, and a lot of it is wasted.
There is a lot of pride and people think is a virtue!
There is a lot of anger brewing which is stoked by fear and the grim recognition that our greed is our undoing. Everyone blames each other.
There is a lot of lust - young people are conditioned with lust in pop videos, and the media sells everything via lust
There is a lot of envy - our economic system promotes envious people who are always trying to do better than the next man
There is a lot of sloth - everything has been made so easy for us that we need do next to nothing to survive. Even the rich are lazy because they make more and more money by doing less and less. The
hard working are never rewarded.

How does it feel for Christians to see a world like this? Or do you see it this way at all?


It is really not important to know what individual Christians feel about the world. It is better to see this world from the viewpoint of Jehovah God through the pages of his Word, the Bible. I would liked to share these scriptures. This first scripture reads like today's headline.

(2 Timothy 3:1-5) But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God — having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

And why do people worldwide act like this?

(1 John 5:19) We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one (Satan the Devil).

Under Satan's control - or influence - the following happens.

(2 Corinthians 4:3,4) If, now, the good news we declare is in fact veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, among whom the god of this system of things (Satan) has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through.

Satan has successfully blinded billions of people away from a future that is made available to all by Jehovah God by means of Christ Jesus' death. For the most part humans have not reconciled themselves to Jehovah God. Sure they go to church or some other religious services but as 2 Timothy 3:5 states they "[have] a form of godliness but [deny] its power." Many could care less about fulfilling their spiritual needs or taking in accurate knowledge of Jehovah God, his son, and the wonderful hope for a future. (Matthew 5:3; John 17:3; Titus 1:1) They go to church perhaps to find business contacts, or to meet new people. Perhaps they go to church to pick up dates. But to fill a spiritual need? No.

Contrast this with true Christians. They would be easily identified by the Godly qualities they exhibit. The foremost of these qualities is love. Jesus said, “By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) This love is not the world's definition of love. It is more than mere surface emotion. It goes deep. It is the kind of love that puts your brother and sister ahead of your own wellbeing. Besides love the other Godly qualities are “joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control.” (Galatians 5:22,23) Jesus also said that "love of neighbor" is one of the greatest commands. As a Christian and one of Jehovah's Witness it is out of love of neighbor that the bible-based message is delivered to individuals wherever we can find them in order to give them the hope of a wonderful future they so desperately need. Our exulted king Jesus Christ, ruling Jehovah God's kingdom, will bring relief from all kinds of problems that plague humanity today. Revelation 21:4 mentions a handful of things God's heavenly kingdom, or government, will accomplish: No more mourning, no more outcry, no more pain, and even death will be done away with. What government today can promise these things?



:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: So you are advertizing/proselytizing in your sig. line yet again. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Last time the Mod. wrote of their displeasure and strongly suggested that it was not appropriate for you to do this. You clearly removed it at that time (thank you)......and now it's back.

Some of us have had enough of evangelizing and don't want it here. I'm am asking you to please stop.

I officially and respectfully request that a Mod. render an opinion on this issue. Thank you.



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26 Jun 2012, 9:31 pm

Why not ask Jews Muslims and Hindus the same questions. It's not just Christians that believe in Hell these are facts :lol:



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27 Jun 2012, 6:15 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
The only uneducated people I see are Lord Gareth and you.


"I know you are but what am I!! !" Your retorts are pathetic, Longshanks. And please, keep trying with that use of the appeal to authority, claiming all kinds of impressive credentials, it really helps all your "arguments"

Longshanks wrote:
Jews were not the only religion persecuted by Hitler, as Lutheran Pastor Leon Bonhoeffer (Spelling?) and Hitler's private secretary, Gertrude Junge could both testify to. Junge herself stated that Hitler may have been raised Catholic, but was an ardent athiest and clearly intended that athiesn should be the only belief in the Third Reich.


You are simply restating a controversial and not widely accepted internet meme spread by Christian conservatives. Jews were not the only persecuted ones though, that is correct

Longshanks wrote:
Bonhoeffer and many other pastors were victims of Hitler's concentration camps. Stalin was an ardent athiest - as were Lenin and Trotsky. All three stated very plainly in their various manifestos that religion of any kind had no place in the Communist State and that atheism was the only accepted "spiritual belief." Mao Tse Tung was even more fervent yet - or have you not read Mao's little red book?

Longshanks


Atheism (learn to spell it, someday) is not a spiritual belief, Longshanks

You're right, most communists don't like religion and worked to stop its influence in society, often through violence. So therefore all atheists = communists? Your grasp of the history and politics of these nations is pre-undergraduate, which is why I will maintain you are a dishonest and uneducated theofascist who attempts to quash debate through weak appeals to authority and who's best comebacks all seem to amount to "No you are!"

You history dilettantes who like to try and paint atheism and communism together irrevocably seem to like to forget how much communism was supported by various church figures in South America


I state it as it is - without the revisionist history that you rely on - and I view your responses to be all the more pathetic than you view mine. So let's just agree to disagree.

Longshanks


"I know you are, but what am I?!" again. Great retort, simply great

Which revisionist history is that? You are speaking out of ignorance. You are simply unaware of the full scope of the situations you refer to yet still choose to come to conclusions based on extremely limited data. This is a trend you seem to enjoy following.

For instance, you claim Hitler killed because of his atheism, yet you also seem unaware that Hitler persecuted atheists and was against secularism

I am sure Conservapedia or whatever other intellectual cesspit you use as your primary learning resource is happy with your progress


Please educate me then. Show me where Hitler was anti-secularist. I've read Mein Kampf. Hitler struck me as being one of the most secular people that I have ever read.

Longshanks


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27 Jun 2012, 6:23 pm

Longshanks wrote:
Please educate me then. Show me where Hitler was anti-secularist. I've read Mein Kampf. Hitler struck me as being one of the most secular people that I have ever read.

Longshanks


You read Mein Kampf and it came across as secular to you? That being the case, I doubt *anything*, even a quote from the man himself, would convince you otherwise. You have already demonstrated the willingness to extrapolate severe conclusions from incomplete data, instead relying on your various background claims to attempt to establish any credibility. In other words: you aren't getting any help from me, pal. Help yourself. The evidence is all out there, especially in Mein Kampf, which I sincerely doubt you have read


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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 6:25 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Please educate me then. Show me where Hitler was anti-secularist. I've read Mein Kampf. Hitler struck me as being one of the most secular people that I have ever read.

Longshanks


You read Mein Kampf and it came across as secular to you? That being the case, I doubt *anything*, even a quote from the man himself, would convince you otherwise. You have already demonstrated the willingness to extrapolate severe conclusions from incomplete data, instead relying on your various background claims to attempt to establish any credibility. In other words: you aren't getting any help from me, pal. Help yourself. The evidence is all out there, especially in Mein Kampf, which I sincerely doubt you have read


I have read Mein Kampf. It means my struggle in german.



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27 Jun 2012, 6:26 pm

Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Please educate me then. Show me where Hitler was anti-secularist. I've read Mein Kampf. Hitler struck me as being one of the most secular people that I have ever read.

Longshanks


You read Mein Kampf and it came across as secular to you? That being the case, I doubt *anything*, even a quote from the man himself, would convince you otherwise. You have already demonstrated the willingness to extrapolate severe conclusions from incomplete data, instead relying on your various background claims to attempt to establish any credibility. In other words: you aren't getting any help from me, pal. Help yourself. The evidence is all out there, especially in Mein Kampf, which I sincerely doubt you have read


I have read Mein Kampf. It means my struggle in german.


Yes it does. I found it to be extremely bland and irritating. There are many passages where Hitler promotes God and spirituality as foundations of a strong society, and opposes cultural nihilism, which he associates with atheism and secularism


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You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 6:31 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Please educate me then. Show me where Hitler was anti-secularist. I've read Mein Kampf. Hitler struck me as being one of the most secular people that I have ever read.

Longshanks


You read Mein Kampf and it came across as secular to you? That being the case, I doubt *anything*, even a quote from the man himself, would convince you otherwise. You have already demonstrated the willingness to extrapolate severe conclusions from incomplete data, instead relying on your various background claims to attempt to establish any credibility. In other words: you aren't getting any help from me, pal. Help yourself. The evidence is all out there, especially in Mein Kampf, which I sincerely doubt you have read


I have read Mein Kampf. It means my struggle in german.


Yes it does. I found it to be extremely bland and irritating. There are many passages where Hitler promotes God and spirituality as foundations of a strong society, and opposes cultural nihilism, which he associates with atheism and secularism


Yeah that is what I never understood yet he killed off God's people the jews and the myth of Aryans go back to anceint times. They where not white nor did they have blonde hair or blue eyes. Hitler though did dislike atheists and secularism isn't always asscoicted with atheists either their are seccular religoious people meaning they don't take their religion litterally. But follow some of the things it teaches.



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27 Jun 2012, 6:40 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Longshanks wrote:
Please educate me then. Show me where Hitler was anti-secularist. I've read Mein Kampf. Hitler struck me as being one of the most secular people that I have ever read.

Longshanks


You read Mein Kampf and it came across as secular to you? That being the case, I doubt *anything*, even a quote from the man himself, would convince you otherwise. You have already demonstrated the willingness to extrapolate severe conclusions from incomplete data, instead relying on your various background claims to attempt to establish any credibility. In other words: you aren't getting any help from me, pal. Help yourself. The evidence is all out there, especially in Mein Kampf, which I sincerely doubt you have read


The snide remarks are just that: snide remarks. They do not answer the call of the question. I will ask again: What proof do you have that Hitler was anti-secularist. Cite your proof and your sources.

Longshanks


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27 Jun 2012, 7:38 pm

Longshanks wrote:
The snide remarks are just that: snide remarks. They do not answer the call of the question. I will ask again: What proof do you have that Hitler was anti-secularist. Cite your proof and your sources.

Longshanks


What, you can deal but can't take? There isn't really anything snide about pointing out your repeatedly used debate tactic of utilizing appeal to authority. As for sources, Mein Kampf, the book you claimed to have read and obviously haven't


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27 Jun 2012, 7:41 pm

Here are some of Adolf's quotes:

http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitler ... ithGod.htm

In light of Adolph's statement "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator", he must have been okay, then.



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27 Jun 2012, 7:43 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Here are some of Adolf's quotes:

http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitler ... ithGod.htm

In light of Adolph's statement "I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator", he must have been okay, then.


Not really he used religion as a weapon



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27 Jun 2012, 7:43 pm

Adolf Hitler wrote:
We Will Fight the Atheistic Movement

We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.

Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933


Adolf Hitler wrote:
Secular Schools Cannot be Tolerated

Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith ...we need believing people.

April 26, 1933, speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordant


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do