Why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most groups.

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Vexcalibur
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05 Sep 2012, 4:39 pm

knowbody15 wrote:
Did you read the whole article?
I begin by reading conclusions so I don't have to waste my time reading an article by crazy people.


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LKL
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05 Sep 2012, 7:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jonah Salk and the GPS guy are obviously ingenious individuals. But they are still individuals. Not every Jew you see wagging their heads back and forth at the wailing wall is going to have above average intelligence, or have the foresight to create something useful or beneficial. I have a sneaking feeling Salk and the GPS guy would agree with me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Of course they are exceptional. The point is not that every Jew is a genius. Rather, the point is that among geniuses, Jews are disproportionately represented. If you're going to attack the argument, make sure you are attacking the point that is actually being made, not the point that is easy for you to rebut.


But it's also true that black Americans have made the most strides in music. Does that mean that blacks are genetically inclined to be musical? I would personally say no - it's more a matter of culture that has inspired musical genius among black people. Same with the genius of Jews in science and entertainment is more a matter of culture than genetic advantage.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This is not about some sort of genetic 'superiority.' The same inbred group that has shown disproportionate numbers of geniuses has also shown disproportionate numbers of cystic fibrosis, a horribly debilitating and fatal genetic disease. There has been one obvious benefit - intelligence, as mearsured by the IQ scale - from this breeding experiment, and numerous defecits. Both Jewish people and the rest of the world population will benefit by some outmixing.



Kraichgauer
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05 Sep 2012, 10:05 pm

LKL wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jonah Salk and the GPS guy are obviously ingenious individuals. But they are still individuals. Not every Jew you see wagging their heads back and forth at the wailing wall is going to have above average intelligence, or have the foresight to create something useful or beneficial. I have a sneaking feeling Salk and the GPS guy would agree with me.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Of course they are exceptional. The point is not that every Jew is a genius. Rather, the point is that among geniuses, Jews are disproportionately represented. If you're going to attack the argument, make sure you are attacking the point that is actually being made, not the point that is easy for you to rebut.


But it's also true that black Americans have made the most strides in music. Does that mean that blacks are genetically inclined to be musical? I would personally say no - it's more a matter of culture that has inspired musical genius among black people. Same with the genius of Jews in science and entertainment is more a matter of culture than genetic advantage.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

This is not about some sort of genetic 'superiority.' The same inbred group that has shown disproportionate numbers of geniuses has also shown disproportionate numbers of cystic fibrosis, a horribly debilitating and fatal genetic disease. There has been one obvious benefit - intelligence, as mearsured by the IQ scale - from this breeding experiment, and numerous defecits. Both Jewish people and the rest of the world population will benefit by some outmixing.


I for one am a strong believer in hybrid vigor - or to put it another way, muttdom.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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05 Sep 2012, 10:26 pm

more like constant change between several somewhat isolated groups(to prevent complete outmixing, reason below)

hybrid vigour while usefull is short lived over anthropological time, even in agriculture it only lasts a couple of generations, creating a stable variant is exceedingly difficult.

the essence of interbreeding remains the same.


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Kraichgauer
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06 Sep 2012, 1:17 am

Oodain wrote:
more like constant change between several somewhat isolated groups(to prevent complete outmixing, reason below)

hybrid vigour while usefull is short lived over anthropological time, even in agriculture it only lasts a couple of generations, creating a stable variant is exceedingly difficult.

the essence of interbreeding remains the same.


I'm still for being a mongrel.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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06 Sep 2012, 1:57 am

ruveyn wrote:
It is undeniable that Jews show up in disproportionate numbers in many intellectually based undertakings and professions. Why?


:idea: Because they have the higher levels of education needed for those professions, maybe?

Quote:
I propose that it is NOT so much genetic as cultural.


Quote:
And that is why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most other ethnic groups.

The smartest ethic group in the world are Asians but they are also one of the most numerous groups in the world.


Genetics or culture have little or nothing to do with it. The groups you mention above on average have by far the highest levels of education. Well, over 50% of them have college degrees.

Of course they are smarter. Higher education = smarter.



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06 Sep 2012, 1:58 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
knowbody15 wrote:
Did you read the whole article?
I begin by reading conclusions so I don't have to waste my time reading an article by crazy people.


Well, there ya go. I hate getting into these things anyway. I always gotta tell myself to keep it mellow. I obsess about politics :)


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06 Sep 2012, 2:09 am

Max000 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It is undeniable that Jews show up in disproportionate numbers in many intellectually based undertakings and professions. Why?


:idea: Because they have the higher levels of education needed for those professions, maybe?

Quote:
I propose that it is NOT so much genetic as cultural.


Quote:
And that is why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most other ethnic groups.

The smartest ethic group in the world are Asians but they are also one of the most numerous groups in the world.


Genetics or culture have little or nothing to do with it. The groups you mention above on average have by far the highest levels of education. Well, over 50% of them have college degrees.

Of course they are smarter. Higher education = smarter.


I'll just say one more thing, I gotta not get all political, but culture absolutely has something to do with it. You have to understand the religion to see why. Jew have always been required by Jewish law to study the torah. This required literacy. They have also always had strict rules as to when you study the torah, producing the value and practice of intellectual master as you learn to understand the torah. It's not just memorizing, prayers, it's deciphering meaning. And this also produced the moral value of study.
Survival of the fittest in the Jewish community required and allowed the intelligent to survive and multiply. That's where genetics plays a part. It makes sense to me.


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06 Sep 2012, 11:18 am

ruveyn wrote:
It is undeniable that Jews show up in disproportionate numbers in many intellectually based undertakings and professions. Why? I propose that it is NOT so much genetic as cultural. Yes, abstract intelligence is, in part, inheritable. Smart runs in families. For example the Bach Family and the Bernoulli Family.

In Jewish culture both before and after the Enlightenment there was what amounts to a breeding program that tended to mate smart men and women who for genetic reasons produced smart children. In the Jewish Shetels in Europe it was customary to arrange matches between the daughters of the most economically successful families in the village with the brightest young rabbinic scholars. Anyone who has ever attended a Talmud-Torah school or class can testify that grasping the Talmud is a skull busting exercise in non-linear logic. The Talmud contains within it exercises in induction, hypothesis formulation, analogy formation and just plain logic. To become an outstanding Talmudic scholar requires abstract intelligence of the highest degree. To be successful in business particularly in societies that are hostile to Jews requires nimble wits and a sharp eye both literally and socially. Mating prime specimens of both groups. produces smart kids. And this is just what Jewish match making customs did. Since Jews did not know any more about genetics than did Charles Darwin (he was totally unaware of genes) the genetic consequences were totally accidental and fortuitous. But real never the less.

Since the enlightenment Jews have had to compete in fields what depend on demonstrated talent rather than political and family connections. Again this weighted activities of an intellectual nature in the Jewish culture to a greater degree than in the surrounding Gentile culture. So this bias in favor of Smart shows up again and again in Jewish culture and thinking.

And that is why Jews has been Smart in disproportionate numbers.

This is not to say there are no Smart Gentiles. In fact most of the smart people on this planet are Gentiles. But then most of the people on this planet are Gentiles. In the seven billion of the human kind there are at most 25 million Jews, a mere scattering or handful. But in the population of scientists and mathematicians the primary intellectual activities Jews are found in highly disproportionate numbers.

And that is why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most other ethnic groups.

The smartest ethic group in the world are Asians but they are also one of the most numerous groups in the world.

China, for thousands of years was ten light years ahead of the West in just about every undertaking that required intelligence.

ruveyn





It is not genetic at all, it is entirely cultural. There was no breeding program that you speak of because before Gregor Mendel, there was no understanding whatsoever about the laws that govern heredity of human traits, including intelligence.


Also, the period of Jewish domination in science and mathematics is over. In the 21st century, the world's best scientists and mathematicians are disproportionately coming from India and Persia.



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06 Sep 2012, 1:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
It is undeniable that Jews show up in disproportionate numbers in many intellectually based undertakings and professions. Why? I propose that it is NOT so much genetic as cultural. Yes, abstract intelligence is, in part, inheritable. Smart runs in families. For example the Bach Family and the Bernoulli Family.

In Jewish culture both before and after the Enlightenment there was what amounts to a breeding program that tended to mate smart men and women who for genetic reasons produced smart children. In the Jewish Shetels in Europe it was customary to arrange matches between the daughters of the most economically successful families in the village with the brightest young rabbinic scholars. Anyone who has ever attended a Talmud-Torah school or class can testify that grasping the Talmud is a skull busting exercise in non-linear logic. The Talmud contains within it exercises in induction, hypothesis formulation, analogy formation and just plain logic. To become an outstanding Talmudic scholar requires abstract intelligence of the highest degree. To be successful in business particularly in societies that are hostile to Jews requires nimble wits and a sharp eye both literally and socially. Mating prime specimens of both groups. produces smart kids. And this is just what Jewish match making customs did. Since Jews did not know any more about genetics than did Charles Darwin (he was totally unaware of genes) the genetic consequences were totally accidental and fortuitous. But real never the less.


Yes, culture and genetics interact, so this makes sense. I would not say the genetic consequences were accidental though. Humans understood the importance of heredity and breeding long before they knew what genes were.

ruveyn wrote:
Since the enlightenment Jews have had to compete in fields what depend on demonstrated talent rather than political and family connections.


This is a rather self-serving simplification. Even with intellectually demanding professions, political and family connections still play a big part when it comes to getting ahead.

For example, does anybody suppose Amschel Rothschild searched far and wide for Europe's best brains before deciding that the best people to take over his business were his own five sons?



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06 Sep 2012, 1:46 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It is undeniable that Jews show up in disproportionate numbers in many intellectually based undertakings and professions.

Is it undeniable? Do you happen to have anything to back it up beyond anecdotal evidence fueled by confirmation bias?


17 percent of nobel luariates are Jewish. Jews constitute 1/290 of the Earth's population.

That is disproportionate. If things were proportional than on 1/290 of the scientists and mathematicians should be Jews. If you go by national population Jews who constitute 1.6 percent of the U.S. population occur in greater percentages in science and math. Jews are also disproportionately represented in entertainment.



It is almost certain that even the Nobel science prizes are not free from politics, nepotism and ethnic networking.

It's quite likely, for instance, that Raymond Vahan Damadian (the inventor of the first magnetic resonance scanning machine) was denied a Nobel prize for being a young earth creationist.

The Jewish "success" in the world of entertainment is of course far more obvious evidence for Jewish ethnic nepotism.



06 Sep 2012, 2:28 pm

LKL wrote:

Ashkenazi Jews are, on average, the smartest group of people on the planet as meausred by the IQ scale. There are flaws with this scale, but it does have some correlation with reality.






Lies, damned lies, and statistics! :lol:


This is SO 1995.I know exactly where you're getting this from: The Bell Curve coauthored by Dr Hernstein(a jew, obviously). These "studies" have long since been debunked. While much has been learned about how certain genes expressed in brain cells play a role in the facilitation of learning, the genetic basis of *intelligence* as defined ITT isn't thoroughly understood. This is racial pseudoscience at its worst.



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06 Sep 2012, 2:51 pm

knowbody15 wrote:
Max000 wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
It is undeniable that Jews show up in disproportionate numbers in many intellectually based undertakings and professions. Why?


:idea: Because they have the higher levels of education needed for those professions, maybe?

Quote:
I propose that it is NOT so much genetic as cultural.


Quote:
And that is why Jews are smarter (as a group) than most other ethnic groups.

The smartest ethic group in the world are Asians but they are also one of the most numerous groups in the world.


Genetics or culture have little or nothing to do with it. The groups you mention above on average have by far the highest levels of education. Well, over 50% of them have college degrees.

Of course they are smarter. Higher education = smarter.


I'll just say one more thing, I gotta not get all political, but culture absolutely has something to do with it. You have to understand the religion to see why. Jew have always been required by Jewish law to study the torah.


The vast majority of Jews are not required to study the torah. Generally only Orthodox Jews (about 13%) even follow Jewish law.

I will concede one point. Culture does have something to do with it. In that some cultures place a higher emphasis on education, then others. But, it is the education that makes people smart, not their culture.



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06 Sep 2012, 3:18 pm

Tequila wrote:
You've missed a trick there, ruveyn. About technological inventions - here's a wee list of what Israel has given the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_inventions_and_discoveries

Not bad for some tiny little pinhead of a desert land in the Middle East.


Maybe one day you could move there and get a job as a shabbos goy.

Tequila wrote:
What have oh, I don't know, the Saudis invented since 1948? Answers on a postcard please.


Why choose Saudi Arabia when you could just as well have chosen Papua New Guinea or Haiti or Laos?

Why? Because of your myopic obsession with Islam, which allows you to criticize a group of people and to annoy liberals while avoiding any heretical ideas about race. And then, when some leftist throws the boo-word -racist- your way, you can just say "Muslims aren't a race, and besides, look at how I slobber over the Jews!"



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06 Sep 2012, 3:21 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Anyone who has ever attended a Talmud-Torah school or class can testify that grasping the Talmud is a skull busting exercise in non-linear logic. The Talmud contains within it exercises in induction, hypothesis formulation, analogy formation and just plain logic. To become an outstanding Talmudic scholar requires abstract intelligence of the highest degree.


Here are some of my favourite Talmud quotes. (Mind-boggling stuff, I'm sure everyone would agree.)

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.



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06 Sep 2012, 4:03 pm

flipflopjenkins wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Anyone who has ever attended a Talmud-Torah school or class can testify that grasping the Talmud is a skull busting exercise in non-linear logic. The Talmud contains within it exercises in induction, hypothesis formulation, analogy formation and just plain logic. To become an outstanding Talmudic scholar requires abstract intelligence of the highest degree.


Here are some of my favourite Talmud quotes. (Mind-boggling stuff, I'm sure everyone would agree.)

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html

Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.


But the question is, how many Jews today believe those ugly things? And is it true that the guy who wrote that tract is a holocaust denier? I ask, because holocaust denial is as much as a bigoted conspiracy theory as is the birther nonsense; and anyone espousing either has to be taken with a grain of salt.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer