Why do Christians not follow the bible?

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I see what you're saying, but what is "modestly," and who determines the benchmark?

Aside from all that...

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 ESV / 26 helpful votes

“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.


Exodus 21:7 ESV / 6 helpful votes

“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do.


I think it would be much worse if people followed these parts of the bible.

Slavery is okay, men are treated better than women, and a raped woman is forced to marry her rapist? Really? A god who supposedly loves all his children would never propose such rules.

I'm a spiritual atheist, but I get along with christians just fine, provided they don't try to shove their beliefs down my throat.

What if you, for whatever reason can't ask that person for forgiveness? besides, Christ tells people to ask the people they wronged for forgiveness.

Why should morality depend on society? The main reason I decided not to convert to Zoroasterism is because I like the idea of a socially independent morality.

Why would Christ tell you to kill your family?

This is a thread about Christianity. It is not a thread about Judaism. The verses you quote come from the Old Testament. I have already explained earlier in this thread that Christians are not obliged to follow Jewish law. We are not Jews. We are Christians.

With the exception of the four things mentioned in Acts 15, Christians are not obliged to keep Old Testament laws, as most of them were symbolic, prophetic laws prophesying the coming of Christ. Since Christ has now come, those prophecies have come true, and there is no point in God's people carrying them out any more.

See here:

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

Acts 15:24-29

The keeping of the symbolic law for Christians has been reduced to those four things. Moral law still stands. I don't understand why so many reasonably well-read people appear have the misconception that Christians must keep symbolic Jewish laws written in the Old Testament. "Following the Bible" includes obeying instructions in the New Testament to no longer live under the law.

Then you should rightly live with the burden for the remainder of whatever time you have left. That's really the whole point of guilt, and of being sorry. Asking for someone's forgiveness is one of those things that exist not to make them feel better, but to make the wrongdoer feel better.

Just because Christ tells people to ask the people that they have wronged for forgiveness, doesn't change the immorality of vicarious redemption, or rather forgiveness for all your sins past, future and present if you ask Christ for it.



Morality always to a degree depends on society, both in definition and action. In the extremes it leads to no solidarity and no community.



I have no idea, I'm merely stating that saying "you must love me more than your family" is synonymous with being willing to get rid of your family in favor of Christ. Jesus doesn't have to be the one asking, if someone tells you "renounce Christ or we kill your family" you have to say "well, murder my family then."

I take great pleasure in lustful thoughts, myself.

Perhaps a church could improve attendance if, instead of old geezers in suits serving as ushers, they hired hot young blossoms in skimpy little bikinis, maybe with cute little bunny tails.

The communion wine could be of a decent vintage, served in long-stem glasses, with cheese and proper crackers.

If the old testament is not to be followed, then why is it still included in THE BIBLE? Why not just leave it out? Regardless, any god who would make such rules for ANY people(and why do the jews and christians have different special rules in the first place? Shouldn't god hold all his "children" to the same standard?) makes no sense.

It's included because without it, Jesus loses his foundation.

Jesus - "I am the Son of God!"

Reader - "God who? Is this like 49 shades of Christ or something?"

In essence, without the old testament, there is no foundation for Christ, it becomes a nice story but if he wasn't indeed the son of the creator of the universe, then most of what he said sounds like it came from a crazy person. The only way its not complete "nutter-butter" is if he is the son of the creator of the universe.

Being forgiven doesn't necessarily mean not feeling guilt. I still feel bad about things I did wrong over a decade ago by accident and was personally forgiven by the wronged party for.

I disagree that morality is dependent on society. I tend to view society as the source of most immorality.

How would you feel if someone said to you "Join the westboro baptist church or we'll kill your family!" (And I mean having to take part in their demonstrations and everything.) What would you do?

On a secondary note, Say you were born into a crime family that wanted you to murder a witness. What would you do?

That doesn't change the fact that A) it doesn't undo what you did and B) it usually makes the person who apologizes feel better because they weren't the ones wronged in the first place.



Well duh, given that morality more or less is meant to govern our relations with society, society would be both the source of morality and immorality. A person without a societal context, more or less cannot be immoral.




You mean like how Christians and Muslims have recruited throughout history and in some places still recruit today?



If he didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't be a witness. People need to abide by that code of silence.

I'll be the first to concede that Christians hardly are lily white innocents. But where in the modern day are people compelled by force - let alone under pain of death - to become Christians?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

And while the lack of conversion by the sword is a wonderful thing, Christians are still a very large influence on the world and still attempt to force their mores and ways onto others. How many counties in the USA won't sell liquor on Sunday? What about laws concerning swearing in public? The gigantic debates on abortion, birth control, and science education? The fact that these are gigantic political rows and not funny stories you see in the news on a slow night is a gigantic freaking problem, and makes Christianity (in all its various forms) a politically relevant subject as a result.

For the record, I think laws suppressing the sale of alcohol, and even swearing, is absolutely ridiculous. Not all Christian denominations are behind such idiocy - mainly evangelicals are the culprits.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Oh certainly, and there are many who would make the distinction - but there are many more who won't. As long as churches that dissent from such behavior remain quiet about it, they get balled in with the idiots. If the silent minority would speak up and argue in favor of secular laws, you wouldn't see them tarred with the same brush.

Well there really isn't anything that can undo what was done. Are you arguing that any mistake no matter how small or well-meant, is unforgivable?

I disagree that morality is meant to govern our roles in society. I feel it is more about self-improvement, at least from a purely secular point-of-view. But I doubt you'll want to hear me ramble about what I feel are the spiritual aspects of morality.

You didn't answer my question.

You'd really shoot the guy? I mean really?

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." -- The Mahatma, Mohandes Gandhi