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Fnord
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07 Nov 2012, 1:00 am

With the defeat of Mitt Romney, America seems to be retreating from Fascism ... or holding a steady distance from it, at least.



auntblabby
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07 Nov 2012, 1:29 am

won't it be more like corporatism with a more human face?



Fnord
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07 Nov 2012, 1:31 am

Hmm ... you have a point ... we'll just have to wait and see.



androbot2084
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07 Nov 2012, 8:22 am

2000 years ago the early church experimented with communism. People started to freeload so the experiment ended. The slogan "If you don't work you don't eat" actually came from this failed communist experiment and has been the mantra of capitalism ever since. But my question is " If communism is so evil why was this experiment started in the first place" ? Wasn't the experiment started because people wanted heaven on earth? Was this an experiment to prove that communism does not work ? I think all it proves is freeloading does not work. Had the communist experiment been successful we would have had heaven on earth.
Religious people love to call me a traitor and the devil. But if these communistic bible verses in the book of Acts are so evil why do conservatives call the bible God's word?



ruveyn
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07 Nov 2012, 8:39 am

The first Fascist President of the U.S was either Abraham Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson. The U.S. has been effectively Fascist and oligarchical since the Woodrow Wilson administration.

ruveyn



androbot2084
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07 Nov 2012, 10:05 am

Lincoln freed the slaves and you call him a fascist?



marshall
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07 Nov 2012, 11:21 am

ruveyn wrote:
The first Fascist President of the U.S was either Abraham Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson. The U.S. has been effectively Fascist and oligarchical since the Woodrow Wilson administration.

ruveyn


Teddy Roosevelt brought the hammer down on the robber baron monopolies of late 19th century fame. What an evil fascist, interfering with the free-market monopoly plutocracy. Wilson started the Federal Reserve because because without a lender of last resort people were routinely running on the banks and crashing the economy. In the good old days you'd have to store your money under your mattress because banks were not to be trusted.



ruveyn
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07 Nov 2012, 11:38 am

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The first Fascist President of the U.S was either Abraham Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson. The U.S. has been effectively Fascist and oligarchical since the Woodrow Wilson administration.

ruveyn


Teddy Roosevelt brought the hammer down on the robber baron monopolies of late 19th century fame. What an evil fascist, interfering with the free-market monopoly plutocracy. Wilson started the Federal Reserve because because without a lender of last resort people were routinely running on the banks and crashing the economy. In the good old days you'd have to store your money under your mattress because banks were not to be trusted.


During Woodrow Wilson's administration left wing activists were jailed just for their political stance. The railroads were nationalized and not returned to private management until 1922. Woodrow Wilson's doctrine was pure soft care Fascism which is the only kind that will happen in the U.S. In the U.S we do not produce the likes of Der Fuhrer of or Il Duce.

FDR was the all time champion of soft core American Fascism with a smile.

ruveyn



TM
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07 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm

thomas81 wrote:
thewhitrbbit wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
So what is wrong with giving up your free will for the common good of communism as long as you are voluntarily willing to join the communist party?


Nothing, but if you disagree with communists, they put a bullet in your head or run you over with tanks.


If you think that modern communists are the sort of people that put bullets in people's head or run people over with tanks you obviously haven't spent any time around any actual communists.

They're more likely to try and sell you a newspaper.

Now, the state police might put a bullet in your head for physically opposing the capitalist order.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Carlo_Giuliani


So in your world it's cool for a guy to indicate that he's going to throw a fire extinguisher at your head, but not cool to prevent him from possibly killing you. Note that the a**hole was in the middle of a morally superior mob using violence, wielding chains and crowbars etc. Come at any sensible person with a crowbar and if they have a gun they'll put a bullet in your skull.


thomas81 wrote:
Then they will run over your corpse in a land rover to make sure you are dead.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpXH0gS ... e=fvwberel


If you threatened me with bashing my skull in with a fire extinguisher amongst a mob of angry people wielding chains and crowbars, I'd be inclined to do the same.



ruveyn
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07 Nov 2012, 12:20 pm

marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The first Fascist President of the U.S was either Abraham Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson. The U.S. has been effectively Fascist and oligarchical since the Woodrow Wilson administration.

ruveyn


Teddy Roosevelt brought the hammer down on the robber baron monopolies of late 19th century fame. What an evil fascist, interfering with the free-market monopoly plutocracy. Wilson started the Federal Reserve because because without a lender of last resort people were routinely running on the banks and crashing the economy. In the good old days you'd have to store your money under your mattress because banks were not to be trusted.


If you follow the Great Financial Meltdown, you will know that banks are still not be be trusted.

The tendency toward soft core fascism and the incipient Nanny State was apparent in American politics prior to the 20 th century.

ruveyn



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07 Nov 2012, 12:22 pm

Obviously for communism to work the rich must not only give up their wealth voluntarily but there also must be a strong message of peace and a belief that violence is not a way to solve problems.



marshall
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07 Nov 2012, 1:06 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
The first Fascist President of the U.S was either Abraham Lincoln or Woodrow Wilson. The U.S. has been effectively Fascist and oligarchical since the Woodrow Wilson administration.

ruveyn


Teddy Roosevelt brought the hammer down on the robber baron monopolies of late 19th century fame. What an evil fascist, interfering with the free-market monopoly plutocracy. Wilson started the Federal Reserve because because without a lender of last resort people were routinely running on the banks and crashing the economy. In the good old days you'd have to store your money under your mattress because banks were not to be trusted.


If you follow the Great Financial Meltdown, you will know that banks are still not be be trusted.

The tendency toward soft core fascism and the incipient Nanny State was apparent in American politics prior to the 20 th century.

ruveyn


I wish someone could figure out how to built a time machine so we can ship all the reactionaries back to the Gilded Age where they can live happily ever after. You can have your robber baron ruled, smoke chocked, Dickensian dystopia all to yourselves.

The American empire is dying now because the private sector only cares about making a quick buck these days. Our infrastructure is decrepit third rate crap. There is no excuse for large swaths of New York city to still be without power.

I think we need more "fascists" like FDR and Ike because they at least understood the value of investing in the future. Once our entire GDP consists of extracting profit through Wall Street paper pushing games and cheap overseas labor we are officially finished as a nation. It may already be too late anyways.



marshall
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07 Nov 2012, 1:34 pm

Also the financial meltdown was due to the neoliberal/fascist policy of intentionally deregulating banks and deliberately stoking up a housing bubble to keep consumer demand artificially high while CEO's were hard at work gutting American industry and shipping jobs overseas behind the scenes. If not for the deregulation fueled bubbles Americans would have immediately felt the effects of their industrial capacity being gutted so that multinational corporations could increase profits through cheap offshore labor. Then maybe something would have been done in the 90s. Now I fear it's too late.



ruveyn
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07 Nov 2012, 5:01 pm

marshall wrote:

I think we need more "fascists" like FDR and Ike because they at least understood the value of investing in the future. Once our entire GDP consists of extracting profit through Wall Street paper pushing games and cheap overseas labor we are officially finished as a nation. It may already be too late anyways.


There is much truth in what you are writing. We ended up as a Crony Capitalist State and we shall pay the price for it.

ruveyn



androbot2084
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07 Nov 2012, 6:16 pm

All capitalism is cronyism.



TM
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07 Nov 2012, 6:33 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

I think we need more "fascists" like FDR and Ike because they at least understood the value of investing in the future. Once our entire GDP consists of extracting profit through Wall Street paper pushing games and cheap overseas labor we are officially finished as a nation. It may already be too late anyways.


There is much truth in what you are writing. We ended up as a Crony Capitalist State and we shall pay the price for it.

ruveyn


With a 2 party system, where both parties are vying to the same people for campaign contributions, it was bound to happen sooner or later. I suppose one can see the irony of it all beginning when FDR appointed Joseph Kennedy as head of the SEC.