Opinion on chivalry?

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Misslizard
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24 Nov 2012, 10:07 pm

DerStadtschutz wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

The older generations who opened doors for ladies also were more likely in a disaster to say" women and children first",I dont find that sexist,more like some internal drive to save those who will perpetuate the species.

How is that NOT sexist? By doing that, you're putting more importance on the women, which is pretty stupid, considering human reproduction requires sperm from a male and an egg from a female... That action suggests that women are weaker and also more important, both statements, which are completely false. Anytime one gender is treated more favorably than another, it's sexism. The way people make a big stink about female circumcision(and they totally should, but not female specifically) but don't seem to give a rat's ass that most boys still get circumcised is sexist. The way people make a big stink when some girl isn't allowed on the football team(which usually gets changed, by the way), but when a boy wants to play field hockey, nobody gives a sh**(and it never gets changed), is sexist as well.

Well,it only takes a couple men to fertilize a bunch of women so in a more primitive society women would be more important in turns of reproduction.I'm not saying that applies today,people have popped out enough babies and for all I care the whole boat load could drown.And for your info,I did not allow anyone to circumcise my son.Nor do I expect special favors from men because I'm female but if a man opens a door for me I'm damm sure not going to spit in his face,I'll say "Thank you ," I didn't make him open the door or ask him to,

AspieRogue

24 Nov 2012, 11:31 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:

You know, we could probably just round up any man who makes any questionable polite gesture towards any woman (or should that be womyn) and lock him away or possibly apply electric shocks to his genitals until he is reeducated in RightThink. We probably should. Next thing you know, men might actually be pulling over on the side of the highway to offer to help a lady change a flat tire. We sure can't have that, now can we? Good Lord! Think of the bedlam the world would be in if men treated ladies like ladies and actually understood that you can still be a lady and still be able to do the same job that men do.

We don't have to throw out everything feminine and turn into unnatractive man clones simply to prove that we can do what men do you know. By trying to pretend that we aren't women, aren't feminine, and aren't any different at all, some women simply sabatoge their own point of being equal. The more like men we are, and the more we deny our femininity it seems, the higher our standing is in the eyes of certain way out there types.

I can still be a lady, be treated like one, and do almost everything that a man can do, as well as he can do it. I'm so very sorry that you feel that you cannot. Throw away every last vestige of femininity of your own if you wish, but please keep your grimey hands off mine.

If you want ME to treat you like a lady , then you well better behave like one princess. That means that you *don't* get to do everything that men get to do and vice versa. Dear me, even way out in buttf*ck egypt where you live women still have a sense of entitlement. If I treat you like a lady that means you must submit and RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH because I am a Man, you are a woman, and you must submit. If you are religious, then surely you understand that God demands that women be obedient and respectful of men and their power & glory.

Regarding the statement in bold: You need to get in touch with reality.

Last edited by AspieRogue on 24 Nov 2012, 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

noxnocturne
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24 Nov 2012, 11:38 pm

Oh dear...this is a volatile subject.

Having said that, I do appreciate little gestures from guys, such as opening doors for me and all. It's so nice for a guy to go out of their way, even for a moment, and do something like that.

LKL
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25 Nov 2012, 4:02 am

Misslizard wrote:

Clucky wrote:

Children always come first; but when the titanic sank it was preposterous how the men were left to die while the women survived.

In that era there was a lot of child mortality,you saved as many women as you could because it was ingrained in the men to rescue them to have more children.That concept is certainly outdated now.In that era there was always the chance that a woman was with child ,so men would be more concerned with saving their lives.

Whether you think that it is fortunate or unfortunate, the 'women and children first' ideal pretty much existed only on the Titanic. In pretty much every other shipping disaster ever, one of the best ways to increase your odds of surviving was to be an adult male.
http://news.yahoo.com/women-children-fi ... 14543.html

OliveOilMom
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25 Nov 2012, 4:30 am

I aint looking at anything on here already, I just want to say one thing.

Joan Jett.

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abacacus
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25 Nov 2012, 5:34 am

Nothing wrong with having some manners.

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AspieRogue

25 Nov 2012, 8:54 am

OliveOilMom wrote:

I aint looking at anything on here already, I just want to say one thing.

Joan Jett.

Shut up, woman! Or I'll really give you somethin to cry about.

Vexcalibur
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25 Nov 2012, 9:37 am

abacacus wrote:

Nothing wrong with having some manners.

Why is it good manners for an elder male to give up his seat for a young woman?

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abacacus
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25 Nov 2012, 9:46 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Nothing wrong with having some manners.

Why is it good manners for an elder male to give up his seat for a young woman?

It's good manners to offer ones seat to a woman. In this case, I'd say the woman showed bad manners in accepting it, but the offer itself is simply something considered to be polite.

It doesn't make much sense to me either, but we don't define the way the world works. We have to live within what others have decided if we are to be accepted at all.

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Shatbat
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25 Nov 2012, 10:47 am

What I'm going to say has mostly been said already, but I'd like to put my thoughts out there anyway.

I don't believe in chivalry per se, but I do believe on having good manners. The key of it seems to be in doing things that help the other person more than they trouble me. Like holding a door open, it takes a second of my time but makes it easier to the other person to go through, men and even some women have done that to me, and I'm grateful. I only give my seat to elderly people, pregnant women, disabled people, and people with a baby. Once I saw this twentysomething woman standing up on a bus complaining loudly about how there were no gentleman left in the world, I just kept my seat as I don't think she has any right of it, she's as capable as me of standing up. That sounded just like entitlement. In the OP example, I'd say that the woman should reject it at first, and then take it if the man insists, and the man just did what he was taught to do and there is nothing wrong with that.

Gender should really not play a part in this. But sometimes it does, and it makes part of one's culture. A bus again, if I'm with a female acquaintance and there is only one seat, then I must give it to her. Not particularly fair, but I'd rather stand around a bit than look like an a**hole. Maybe she's not an acquaintance but a friend or a family member, then I don't mind because I actually enjoy doing things for them. And there is stuff like carrying heavy things around, where the average men will usually do better than the average women, I remember one time where I could bring two heavy suitcases up a ladder more easily than any of the women in my group could do with a single one, so naturally I did it. But when it's just rolling them on the floor, they can do it themselves.

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Misslizard
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25 Nov 2012, 10:50 am

Vexcalibur wrote:

abacacus wrote:

Nothing wrong with having some manners.

Why is it good manners for an elder male to give up his seat for a young woman?

In his youth it was ingrained in his mind to provide for women,it most likely made him feel good about himself,even though he's elderly he was still able to provide something,his seat.
My roosters will scratch up special tidbits for the hens and call them to enjoy the treat,I've seen male birds bring treats to their prospective mates.Someone should tell them to stop,it's sexist.

MONKEY
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25 Nov 2012, 11:08 am

It's alright as long as pet names aren't used! And the gestures should be given by both genders really, it's simple niceness.
And I don't mind being let on to a bus seat first, I'm not going to be feminist over that issue. :wink:

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Clucky
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25 Nov 2012, 11:26 am

MONKEY wrote:

If someone was doing it purely 'out of kindness' i.e "I don't need this seat, you're more than welcome to take it" - But to offer it to someone based solely on their gender in my opinion is sexist and demeaning to both sexes.

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Clucky
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25 Nov 2012, 11:34 am

OliveOilMom wrote:

Clucky wrote:

"It's not special treatment, it's manners"

Chivalry was not merely a man being courteous to women, it was paired with men being viewed as more capable. The very concept behind being chivalrous was that women were weaker, fragile creatures that needed men to handle things for them.
It's an outdated concept and isn't only demeaning towards women, but is unfair towards men.

You know Clucky, sometimes a person just has to stop trying to nail jello to a tree. Talking to you is like that activity. I imagine that you are fairly young, idealistic, and not very learned in the ways of society. Therefore you are taking as much offense to this as PETA to a cheeseburger. Thats ok.

I'm really done talking to you about this. Not because I "have no argument" or any such nonsense, but because I do, it's as plain as the nose on your face, and you refuse to see it because it doesn't fit in with your idea of how things ought to be. Or how you are so sure everyone else things, and their motives for actions.

You just go on ahead about your little business and keep on with your little upsetness over this, and you try to right the wrongs done against all of womankind by opening doors, and you can also even have the last word! Go ahead. You know you want it. That can even be a "win" in your book.

Again, I do have to say....

Just bless your ever lovin' precious little heart.

No you don't have a reasonable argument, you've just spouted some nonsense claiming it to be mannerly.
You fail to see why these kind of acts are offensive to men and demeaning to women.
I don't care about "a win", you're just being petulant and patronizing - I care about doing what's right. And for me special treatment towards someone because of their gender is not right! Sorry!

Just bless your ever loving narrow minded thinking.

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Clucky
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25 Nov 2012, 11:35 am

SpiritBlooms wrote:

DerStadtschutz wrote:

But gender equality DOES have something to do with manners if it's only the men that are expected to show good manners toward the women. Why can't a man hold a door for another man, or a woman for a man, or ANYONE for ANYONE else?

They can, and manners have always applied to both genders, but the specifics of who is to do what have changed over time. It's just that some people have difficulty catching up. Really I don't know why any young person would think it's up to them to teach a 70-year-old manners. Don't worry, in 20 or 30 years, all the oldsters will have died off and you can be the ones that a younger generation thinks have old-fashioned manners.

I never claimed it was my responsibly to teach this man manners. I'm simply asking the question whether his actions were right or wrong.

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Clucky
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25 Nov 2012, 11:38 am

DerStadtschutz wrote:

Misslizard wrote:

You're absolutely right, there is an abundance of sexism towards men today in the media and from women.
It's repulsive that women think of this "as a joke" yet any sexist joke towards them, or any sexist act and the man "is considered a pig and is heavily criticized.
This hypocrisy is very prevalent in a lot of women today.

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