Palestinian girl stands up to IDF thugs

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Whether or not he's been 'kicking my ass' is entirely subjective, and based entirely on whether Viper has actually bothered to grasp the substance of my point. I don't think he has. The main grievance I have is that Viper has been using almost entirely argumental fallacies to back his position, ie. Demanding that I defend the institution of Islam when in fact i do not inherently agree with it. Quite the contrary, all Viper has done is ignore the root of my argument and that is the fundamental truth and basis for Israels supposed moral pedestal in the context of the 'holy land' conflict.

Im not pro Islam. I'm anti-Israel-blowing-the-crap-out -of -Gaza.

Where I stand is that I am opposed to the idea of siding with one religious group against another, while Viper and his fellow idelogical adherents have constitently and obstinately refused to accept the blatant and undeniable fact that all abrahamic religions bar none have been socially damaging to a greater or lesser degree while posting the flawed premise that because i have insufficiently defended Islam this substantiates Israel's carte blanche to behave however it wants.

To answer Thomas81, Yes I'm partial towards Viper, I'm not trying to be an impartial observer. He probably has a better grasp of the situation that most of us, and I consider myself pretty learnED (i like that word) about what's going on. I can take you back to pre 1948 and we can talk about all the UN resolutions and what was going with all the settlements, etc etc...I know that the settlements in the west bank were not even an issue at one point. Pre 1967, I can tell you what the issue was pre 1948 and why the Arab League decided to decline statehood and instead try to destroy Israel.

You guys talk as if you don't quit get the grasp of it all. The UN and England screwed both sides, Israel took what it was offered, which was less than fair, the Arab League didn't take anything, and instead attacked Israel. That's it.....every single thing that happened after that, requires this event to be included when judging the situation..... and a basic understanding of all the events. Propagandists hope that you're not totally into what's been going on there for the last 50 years. They need you to know as little as possible so they can feed you with lies. Sounds dramatic, but it is what it is. you guys don't see the situation in it's entirety, and instead, get caught up in this emotionally driven propaganda whirlwind that hits you in all the right spots. It gets you in your hatred or discomfort for organized religion but twists you up in your indetification with so called freedom fighters, people being oppressed, all things that get snagged in your own personal feelings, where reason becomes a rare comodity. Propagandists need people who already feel alienated in their own lives.

I bet you guys a million bucks some kind of alienation has gone on or is going on in your lives....all of us experience it to some degree, and that shouldn't be judged. All the things that you felt taken away from you, or things you felt entitled to that you never got, love from your parents, friends etc, seeing a people who have had their identity as a country and a people taken away like the Palestinians, this resonates with you, charges you up with emotion....these guys (the PAL propagandists) could tell you anything, show you a picture with strategically placed dead bodies, claim civilian casualties because they were firing missles from a school or hide behind their own people, all you see is the plight of the just being oppressed by the unjust....

Watch videos of what gets taught in Palestinian schools, see that leaders pay huge sums of money so someone's son can kill himself and kill kids and and innocent people, arabs, jews, doesn't matter. See the differrence between a suicide bomber who deliberately kills innocents, and an israeli missiles, a million dollar missile with 10 million more dollars of technology that keeps the missile from killing innocents.....

There's bad spelling and this was coffee fueled, and honestly, dont read it in a mean tone, I think you guys have been misled and I dont like to see that happen.

The brainwashed young male is the secret weapon of Islam in the war between the dar al harb and the dar al sala'am.

Promise the young boys 72 Houris ready to do whoop dee doo with them for eternity and they will blow themselves to smithereens. Alah'hu akbar!

ruveyn

Here's a blog which uses the entire history of the region, plus references all UN resolutions, quotes from various governments at the time...etc etc...you can fact check all of this. Search google for article 80 or "the partition plan" etc etc....

Fact check statements the website makes like "From Syria: “My country will never recognize such a decision [Partition]. It will never agree to be responsible for it.” I've heard the response from the anti Israel side, it's out there, I know it, you should know it. Know both sides, if you truly think Israel is the evil occupier, then know your s**t.....

Fact check this too: 51 member countries – the entire League of Nations [Today’s UN] – unanimously declared on July 24, 1922:
“Whereas recognition has been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country.” "What does league of nations" mean, what did this statement lead to.....

If you need ammunition for your side, search terms like "Balfour Israel Occupation". this will hopefully bring up anti israel sites that talk about the Balfour Declaration.

This blog sums up pretty much how I look see things....read it and challenge it.....prove it wrong..... http://lonelyconservative.com/2011/05/a ... e-reality/

I read "the other side" of a ton of issues, I want to know what the other side thinks, not just what my side thinks......

And at the end of the day, here's why not a single entity wants peace with Israel, and why Israel must always consider it's national security:

Fatah Constitution Articles 12 and 19: Complete liberation of Palestine and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence.”Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People’s armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.”


The PLO Charter Article 15 calls the liberation of Palestine a national (qawmi) duty to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the “liquidation of the Zionist presence” in Palestine.


The Hamas Charter: “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees….Hamas Charter Article 15 (a portion): “The day that enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In face of the Jews’ usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.

You tell me if those statements are taken out of context or completely false, or even outdated, that's probably the first thing I would check....

I'll fact check one of the above statements right now: The PLO Charter Article 15 this website http://www.iris.org.il/plochart.htm lists all the articles in the charter, and actually says "to repel the Zionist and imperialist aggression against the Arab homeland, and aims at the elimination of Zionism in Palestine." It says "elimination" instead of "liquidation" as quoted above, and you could skim the whole thing and say "wow, these folks really just want peace" but read it more carefully, see when it was created, 68, AFTER a few unsuccessful wars to eliminate Israel.....

I could spend hours reading the PLO charter from different sources, seeing the differences in translation, reading opinions.....

I mean, it's almost like a lot of pro palestinian folks are just bandwagoners looking to join a fight because they want to fight, without really REALLY understanding the fight........

They are promised 72 virgins because with Arab women, that's about how many you would need to receive to find even one you could bang with the lights on! If Rabbis taught a similar doctrine, I bet they could get an even bigger turnout of Israeli men that would blow themselves up for only 4 or 5 IDF girls!

The Palestine Mandate was a brutal violation of the League of Nations Convenant under which it was established! As a Class A Mandate Palestine had "provisional independence" and the mandatory was ordered to take into account the desires of the local population and to unintrusively prepare these places for independence. Not to give it to alien invaders. The local Jewish population did not support Zionism by the way.

Nor did the ultra Orhodox Jews. They believed the in-gathering of the Jewish people would occur with the coming of the Mesiah and would not happen until G-D decided it was time. They initially regarded the establishment of the State of Israel by European socialists as a kind of blasphemy. Given the trouble that Jews living in the State which Herzel and Jacobovsky labored to establish, it just might be that the Orthodox were right in the first place.

ruveyn

Makes you wonder what things would be like if Haj Amin al-Husseini never existed.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCKWDarNdGw[/youtube]

'free speech' in the middle easts only duhmocracy
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QiV9xn0RbI[/youtube]

I've seen this video ages ago when it was first released.. The kid was told to move from a ledge when asked and didn't. An obstructionist protester defying orders, in other words.

I didn't see any ledge in that video. More like he was standing in a public area minding his own business.

To me it looks like when the police confronted him it was because he had an arab scarf around his neck with a palestinian flag attached to it. They couldve left him alone before that point, instead they created a storm in a teacup.

I don't see how that video can be taken in other context.

http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com.es/201 ... r.html?m=1

After a bit of painful Google searching, I found what I was looking for eventually.

His name is Lucas Koerner. He wad in Jerusalem on the day of the Independence Day celebrations, where Israelis proudly walk their streets proclaiming that the city is the home of Judaism and Israel's capital.

He was there, shouting slogans and generally making a muisance of himself and waving his US passport about. The police asked him to move, he wouldn't. The police demanded to see his passport (Israel is an ID card country), he refused. They then decided that enough was enough and arrested him, whereby he then struggled and bit a police officer. No sympathy.

It's yet another Pallywood production and, as you may well know, YT videos often do not tell the full story. I suspect, as well, that he was probably nicked in order to keep him safe - more Kahanist type Jews may have gone for him.

Even if he was waving his passport about and 'shouting slogans', by what benchmark does this constitute 'making a nuisance'?

Is Israel not a nation of free speech?

The people in the background who were waving star of david flags were much noisier, and were not 'asked to move' so i dont accept the 'public disturbance' canard either


The way I read it is that its more a case of the Israeli police trying to make an example out of him by outlawing diversity of opinion.

He wad standing on the top of a barricade. Also, refusing to show ID on Israel is a crime, as even Koerner himself later admitted. The eyewitness accounts basically tell a diferent story - that the video is very heavily edited, that he belongs to a groip of very hardline "anti-Israel" protesters that diberayely went to Israel.

Question for you - what do you think would happen to an American Muslim Zionist if they went to Gaza wearing a thobe, a skullcap and an Israeli flag whilst screaming about Hamas's genocidal anti-Semitism, terrorism or the disgusting way they use their own people as human shields? What would happen to them if this Muslim Zionist - and they do exist! - had pulled that stunt in KSA, Yemen, Iran or Pakistan? Answers on a postcard please.

My arm aches now. I am going for a kip.

Thats all hearsay. Between the initial start of the video where he is just talking to the cameraman and his first confrontation by the police, i am not seeing any reasonable motive on the part of the police that would justify his being apprehended.

Nor do i see any incontiguous footage or clear evidence that its been edited between those 2 points. Usually if footage has been doctored it would be obvious (fade to black and fade from black cuts for example).


Thats really a side issue. Hamas are theocratic dictators that have no pretences of claiming to be an advocate of either democracy or freedom of speech( not that that gives Israel a right to bomb one of the most densely populated centres on Earth). At least no one can accuse them of being hypocrites, if nothing else.

Israel does carry such afforementioned pretences. I was trying to make a point about the double standards.

At this point its really an excerise in hair splitting and straw clutching to labour the case of why he should have been arrested. However you look at it, its a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Ultimately, If the Israeli security services have time, money and armed personel to languish on asinine tasks such as apprehending isolated, and inconsequential street corner activists perhaps the imminent threat posed by Hamas and Islamic Jihad isn't as prolific as they want the world to believe. Its certainly not how a nation at war would prioritise its affairs. No sympathy.