Pat Condell: "Patronising the Palestinians"

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Mukherjee80
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13 Jan 2013, 5:26 pm

Here's some further background information on the experience of minorities in Israel:

Quote:
http://www.barrychamish.com/newsletters ... dren1.html

The Ringworm Children, a Film Review

by Barry Chamish

About Barry

Barry Chamish is a Canadian-born, journalist who emigated to Israel where he received a M.A. from Hebrew University. He served in the Israel Defense Force (IDF) and participated in the 1982 Lebanon War.
...
On August 14, at 9 PM, Israeli television station, Channel Ten, broke all convention and exposed the ugliest secret of Israel's Labor Zionist founders; the deliberate mass radiation poisoning of nearly all Sephardi youths.
...
In 1951, the director general of the Israeli Health Ministry, Dr. Chaim Sheba flew to America and returned with seven x-ray machines, supplied to him by the American army.
They were to be used in a mass atomic experiment with an entire generation of Sephardi youths to be used as guinea pigs. Every Sephardi child was to be given 35,000 times the maximum dose of X-rays through his head. For doing so, the American government paid the Israeli government 300 million Israeli liras a year.
....

The majority of the victims were Moroccan because they were the most numerous of the Sephardi immigrants. The generation that was poisoned became the country's perpetual poor and criminal class. It didn't make sense. The Moroccans who fled to France became prosperous and highly-educated. The common explanation was that France got the rich, thus smart ones. The real explanation is that every French Moroccan child didn't have his brain cells fried with gamma rays.

The film made it perfectly plain that this operation was no accident. The dangers of x-rays had been known for over forty years. We read the official guidelines for x-ray treatment in 1952. The maximum dose to be given a child in Israel was .5 rad. There was no mistake made. The children were deliberately poisoned.

David Deri, makes the point that only Sephardi children received the x-rays:

"I was in class and the men came to take us on a tour. They asked our names. The Ashkenazi children were told to return to their seats. The dark children were put on the bus."
...
The Moroccan lady is back on the screen. "It was a Holocaust, a Sephardi Holocaust. And what I want to know is why no one stood up to stop it."



Tequila
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13 Jan 2013, 5:34 pm

Chamish is known as a conspiracy theorist. He believes the NWO is out to destroy Israel.



thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 5:57 pm

Tequila wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Focusing on European culture or history to the exclusion of a wider view of the world; implicitly regarding European culture as preeminent.


Are Jews supposed to eat pork? There's nothing "Eurocentric" about what I'm saying. Civilisation-centric would be more apposite.



Israel is a westernised, therefore eurocentric country.

The term civilisation-centric when used in this context is in itself eurocentric. Well, bordering on racist, actually.


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Tequila
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13 Jan 2013, 6:03 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Israel is a westernised, therefore eurocentric country.


Is Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea or Taiwan "westernised"?

Also, most don't eat pork in Israel, although it is legal and there is one supermarket that sells pork and some restaurants do prepare it, but it's very much a taboo amongst most Jews in Israel.

thomas81 wrote:
The term civilisation-centric when used in this context is in itself eurocentric. Well, bordering on racist, actually.


a) As if I'm going to listen much to your pronouncements on race or, well, just about anything.
b) Civilisation-centric doesn't have anything to do with being "Euro-centric" or not. Unless you think that people who execute gay people are civilised?



thomas81
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13 Jan 2013, 6:15 pm

Tequila wrote:

Is Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea or Taiwan "westernised"?

Not to the same extent, because by in large they have mantained their indigenous cultures albeit somewhat amalgamated with western ones.
Tequila wrote:
Also, most don't eat pork in Israel, although it is legal and there is one supermarket that sells pork and some restaurants do prepare it, but it's very much a taboo amongst most Jews in Israel.

What is your fixation with pork? As if the bacon sandwich is the magnus opus of the west's contribution to the world.

Tequila wrote:

a) As if I'm going to listen much to your pronouncements on race or, well, just about anything.


If you're going to infer that western culture is superior then I'm afraid there are racist undertones, yes.


Tequila wrote:
b) Civilisation-centric doesn't have anything to do with being "Euro-centric" or not. Unless you think that people who execute gay people are civilised?


a) you're inferring that all culture within the islamic world is orientated around persecuting gays or other groups. Its not. I invite you to look at moderate nations, Morocco, Egypt and Turkey for example.

b) Not all muslim nations execute gays. In fact I believe it is only a minority. Iran is one of the worlds havens for transsexuals seeking sexual realignment surgery.


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13 Jan 2013, 6:30 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Iran is one of the worlds havens for transsexuals seeking sexual realignment surgery.


...because they hate gays.

I'm staying out of this argument. I just felt the need to point out why using that example was problematic.



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13 Jan 2013, 6:33 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Iran is one of the worlds havens for transsexuals seeking sexual realignment surgery.


...because they hate gays.


thats true but its got to the stage where even foreigners are going there for this purpose. After Thailand it is the worlds second most popular sex change tourism hot spot.

What does that tell you about the state of transgenderal rights elsewhere?

The west should sort out its own backyard before it criticises muslim countries. That is all I'm saying.


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13 Jan 2013, 6:36 pm

thomas81 wrote:
What does that tell you about the state of transgenderal rights elsewhere?

The west should sort out its own backyard before it criticises muslim countries. That is all I'm saying.


Transgender rights suck in most of the world, but that doesn't make Iran's motives any purer.

I think it's good to criticise oppression wherever it is. My criticism doesn't acknowledge national borders.



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13 Jan 2013, 6:40 pm

puddingmouse wrote:

I think it's good to criticise oppression wherever it is. My criticism doesn't acknowledge national borders.


Try telling that to Tequila and his ideological cohorts. I agree in as far as its good to criticise oppression wherever it rears its ugly head. I do however have a big problem when it comes to concentrating on one source specifically, especially when they are others that are equally pertinent. It is xenophobia and sectarian bullying.


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13 Jan 2013, 6:44 pm

thomas81 wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:

I think it's good to criticise oppression wherever it is. My criticism doesn't acknowledge national borders.


Try telling that to Tequila and his ideological cohorts. I agree in as far as its good to criticise oppression wherever it rears its ugly head. I do however have a big problem when it comes to concentrating on one source specifically, especially when they are others that are equally pertinent. It is xenophobia and sectarian bullying.


It's a reaction to other people excusing certain types of oppression. I don't think Tequila would give two turds about Israel if there weren't Palestinian supporters out there who make excuses for the likes of Hamas. That kind of hypocrisy is like a red flag.

I'm not saying that's what you do personally.



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13 Jan 2013, 6:49 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:

I think it's good to criticise oppression wherever it is. My criticism doesn't acknowledge national borders.


Try telling that to Tequila and his ideological cohorts. I agree in as far as its good to criticise oppression wherever it rears its ugly head. I do however have a big problem when it comes to concentrating on one source specifically, especially when they are others that are equally pertinent. It is xenophobia and sectarian bullying.


It's a reaction to other people excusing certain types of oppression. I don't think Tequila would give two turds about Israel if there weren't Palestinian supporters out there who make excuses for the likes of Hamas.

.


Tequila gives turds about Israel because like all conservatives, including from his party's perspective, it is politically expedient to do so. He doesnt give a toss about the security of Jews, because if he did he wouldnt support Israel, quite the contrary. He would support its amicable dismantlement from the occupied territories and the resettlement of Jews in the west.

It is a pro-western liberal watchdog in the middle east keeping an eye on America and the UK's interests is a region rich with the black stuff. Thats why all western right wingers in general love Israel.


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13 Jan 2013, 6:51 pm

^ That's why Western governments love Israel.

Most British people who take the Israeli side in this argument are doing it to be contrary and to get left-wing ideologues to argue with them. It makes for good, consistently heated Internet.



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13 Jan 2013, 6:54 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
^ That's why Western governments love Israel.

Most British people who take the Israeli side in this argument are doing it to be contrary and to get left-wing ideologues to argue with them. It makes for good, consistently heated Internet.


I can't speak for the USA but way back when, we had good, socialist heavyweights in the corridors of power like Gerald Kaufmann who echoed more or less what I am saying now.

Kaufmann was a Jew to boot.


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13 Jan 2013, 6:58 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
It's a reaction to other people excusing certain types of oppression.


It's not only that, but mainly, yes it is. Israel is now on the very front line between Islamist genocidal hatred. It's not much complicated than that.

Even if you do support a Palestinian state (I support any kind of state in the West Bank/Gaza that's at peace with its neighbours), it's impossible to support the Palestinians in their present state. I can't imagine a group of people less deserving of sympathy along with perhaps unrepentant IRA or UDA/UVF bombers of civilians.

puddingmouse wrote:
I don't think Tequila would give two turds about Israel if there weren't Palestinian supporters out there who make excuses for the likes of Hamas.


Well, that and the fact that what the Palestinians publicly say in Arabic and their anti-Semitic slurs are routinely ignored, glossed over or even promoted in the Western media. The left-wingers turning their backs on them would be a great help in showing that the Palestinians that their hate is not acceptable.

Plus, the British far-left is caked in anti-Semitism (this isn't just criticising Israeli policies, which in some cases I agree with, but actually delegitimising Israel as a state). At least people like codarac and the Stormfronters are honest about it.

puddingmouse wrote:
That kind of hypocrisy is like a red flag.


Oppression is wrong but wanting to kill every Jew in the world is fine.

puddingmouse wrote:
I'm not saying that's what you do personally.


Remember, he was joking when he said he supported Hamas, weren't you thomas81?

puddingmouse wrote:
Most British people who take the Israeli side in this argument are doing it to be contrary and to get left-wing ideologues to argue with them.


Where would you rather live? Gaza or Tel Aviv? Ramallah or Ra'anana?



Last edited by Tequila on 13 Jan 2013, 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 Jan 2013, 6:59 pm

thomas81 wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
^ That's why Western governments love Israel.

Most British people who take the Israeli side in this argument are doing it to be contrary and to get left-wing ideologues to argue with them. It makes for good, consistently heated Internet.


I can't speak for the USA but way back when, we had good, socialist heavyweights in the corridors of power like Gerald Kaufmann who echoed more or less what I am saying now.

Kaufmann was a Jew to boot.


He's the MP for the constiuency next to mine.

Just because there is a very legitimate criticism to make of Israel, doesn't mean that all of the criticism is well made.



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13 Jan 2013, 7:00 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Just because there is a very legitimate criticism to make of Israel, doesn't mean that all of the criticism is well made.


Or whether it's actually justified or is, actually, just a veiled slur on Israel.