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The "Why do you need?" fallacy. (Re: gun control)

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AspieOtaku
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11 Jan 2013, 5:49 pm

^^ You beat me to it! :lol: Your absolutely right though most of these anti gun wussies follow the concept that banning guns will solve all the problems involving violence. You can take guns away but it wont take the motivation to kill away from the criminals they always find ways of illegally obtaining guns. It actually makes it easier for criminals to go on shooting rampages.If you don't like guns don't buy them then feel free to move to a country where guns were once legal but now illegal and as a result high crime and see how long you will last.


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Last edited by AspieOtaku on 11 Jan 2013, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ModusPonens
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11 Jan 2013, 5:53 pm

adb wrote:
ModusPonens wrote:
Some people such as you don't even imagine a different culture beside the gun culture. Here in Portugal there is strict gun control and there's absolutely no gun debate. Apart from some rare loonies, here nobody is pro gun. So, given this context, I arrived at the conclusion that people who want guns for self defense are motivated by fear. I don't know how you're going to deny this, but I'm curious.


ModusPonens wrote:
Curious indeed, since you didn't even denied it, which I can assume to mean that I'm right.

Your forum name suggests you are a fan of logic, which makes me expect that you wouldn't make invalid conclusions such as in both of these posts.

Your context has no bearing on his motivation for wanting guns for self-defense. Violent crime exists in the world. Humans follow the path of least resistance. Criminals will choose the victim that is the easiest and least likely to result in failure. Having a gun will reduce the likelyhood of being a victim. Not knowing whether or not a victim may have a gun is a substantial deterrent to the criminal.

Fear is an emotion. A desire to mitigate risk does not imply fear.

It's also not valid to make a conclusion based on a lack of evidence. A lack of denial doesn't confirm truth.


Thank you for your lesson in logic, but I'll keep Hilbert calculus for mathematical contexts.

The desire to decrease risk is only not motivated by fear if you're a robot (or an arahat, but that's another story).



adb
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11 Jan 2013, 6:42 pm

ModusPonens wrote:
The desire to decrease risk is only not motivated by fear if you're a robot (or an arahat, but that's another story).

I thought about addressing this in my original post, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Having an emotion (fear) and preferring not to experience an undesirable outcome are not the same thing. I prefer to have something to drink, but I don't fear lacking something to drink. Are you confusing disappointment for fear?



AspieOtaku
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11 Jan 2013, 9:16 pm

An easy win for the pro gun committee let freedom ring and fellow citizens not continue to live out of fear from tyranny!May the right defend ones life liberty and home continue!


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13 Jan 2013, 7:24 pm

Who said you have won?

The only thing that happened is that I lost interest in discussing the obvious. If pro gun people are not self aware enough to notice that owning a gun is motivated by fear, then why bother discussing these things?

I mean, there's a "why isn't there an anti-bow lobby" topic. And that had 5 pages (iirc).Do you realise the size of the ridicule we're dealing with here?

Ring the bell. The anti gun oponent flew over the ring to do something better. If you want to call that a victory, go ahead. 8)



AspieOtaku
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13 Jan 2013, 7:48 pm

No need to, the anti bow topic was made because this is a debate you cannot win, game over man game over! Besides its not always out of fear I myself do not own a gun but if I moved to a bad neighborhood I would probably wish I had a gun in case of a home invasion. Criminals have ways of illegally obtaining them always have always will. And it seems like you lost this debate since it took 3 days to respond!


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13 Jan 2013, 8:30 pm

It took me 3 days to respond because I forgot about the topic.

Have you ever tried to discuss the Israel Palestine conflict with someone who doesn't know what Islam is about? Is it of any use?

Same thing here. I'm not changing my position. You guys are not changing your position (by that measure it would always be a tie).



AspieOtaku
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13 Jan 2013, 11:35 pm

Image


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14 Jan 2013, 4:49 am

ModusPonens wrote:
Who said you have won?

The only thing that happened is that I lost interest in discussing the obvious. If pro gun people are not self aware enough to notice that owning a gun is motivated by fear, then why bother discussing these things?

I mean, there's a "why isn't there an anti-bow lobby" topic. And that had 5 pages (iirc).Do you realise the size of the ridicule we're dealing with here?

Ring the bell. The anti gun oponent flew over the ring to do something better. If you want to call that a victory, go ahead. 8)

There are a lot of motivating factors to own guns, and sometime people have many reasons at the time of a purchase. As for fear, would it not be worse to cower helplessly at the mercy of people not known for that virtue?


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