Is the case for an Autistic country really that implausible?

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I wonder how much about the Old Order Menonites some of the anti-vax crusaders knew, before they used them as "poster* children" for fear-mongering about vaccines.

Inventor has a good point about the Amish "counties" above, in that a rural community would be one where many individuals who not have anywhere near the communiciation/processing issues that result from our "modern" society. See also Ahogday's explanation of BAP.

In any event, while the case for an "Aspie Nation" is and continues to be implausable on practical grounds, there are far fewer practical issues standing in the way of an "Aspie Neighberhood", "Aspie Acres/Aspie Village", or "Aspie Building".

One of the major obstables in front of such a concept is the continuing lack of offline connections between proponents and supporters of the concept. With the exception of Autreat, which has moved to a slightly more central location for 2013, there is not a major gathering of Aspies for the roughly 300 Million residents of the United States. Even when broken down regionally, only a handful of "ASD social groups" function on a regular basis, and almost all of them in densly populated areaas.

I think the next step for advocates of Aspie communities is to create and sustain offline meetings and connections.

* Never try to take a frontal picture of "the Amish", for reasons beyond the scope of this post.

I think it is extremely unfortunate that this issue cannot be fuller explored by research, because, at least in part, it has become politically incorrect to do so, over the unwarranted vaccine concerns. I think it could go a long way in helping people on the spectrum. I provided that comment in the last congressional oversight hearing, as a written one, but the results of that hearing in the continued focus on unwarranted mercury fears, continues to drown some of the valid concerns and efforts that could potentially help people now.

I agree that the offline connections, which do not currently do well past support groups in large cities, are the first step. However, I think that part of the reason that the offline connections do not happen, is because the opportunity for online ones continue to expand dramatically. And this certainly is not an issue specific to people on the spectrum.

Most ironically, it could be part of the overall issue of what leads to a diagnosis in the real world for some, moving from that broader autism phenotype. It is in someways potentially a "catch 22" situation.

I had offline connections with people on that broader autism phenotype through most of the course of my life through school and work.

There were no labels, but as I look back those people were always there. Those same opportunities I had in my field of historical work I could depend on with job security no longer exist.

For many reasons, my field of work was a magnet for people on that broader autism phenotype, that one could observe nationwide.

Effectively, my workplace was an "Neurodiversithy Community". One of my co-workers did the flapping thing, where my stim was a religious routine of vigorous exercise. I never made the connection in his flapping and my exercise until it was pointed out as a stim that some people on the spectrum share.

There is no description of flapping in any diagnostic textbook. The only place one can usually find a description is in online autism communities. Or as was in my case, a real life observation in my "Neurodiversity Workplace". I never came across anyone doing that in school that I can remember.

The people haven't changed that much but the opportunity for "Stims" has. The idea of sitting still, was horrifying to me in the workplace, behind a desk job, as I was hyperactive. What is also known as ADHD, today.

I might have flapped too, as when I was finally trapped behind a computer, I had to do push-ups to release frustration and tension, and eventually succumbed to problems with hypersensitivity to light and sound.

In trying to explain that to an elder co-worker, also obviously on a broader Autism phenotype, her response was stress does weird "s**t" to you.

There is now research that shows dysfunction of the stress response and adrenaline associated neuro-hormones, is associated with sensory integration problems.

I think this is part of what the issue is for people who are young that are under a level of chronic stress that I cannot imagine in a rural town, with a short walk to a small school, without even stimulation from a TV set.

For all practical intents and purposes I grew up in something similar to an Amish County, and my ancestors more so. That is the way culture used to be for thousands of years close to the earth in hunting and gathering and/or agriculture. The old order of Agri Culture is in many ways like Amish Culture.

Some of the answers seem blatantly obvious to me because I have experienced so many actual different perspectives in just one life. People now are often born in to an environment of one full serving on one plate.

The yearning for a place where people can successfully adapt is at the crux of many of the problems of modern civilization, I think, and again certainly not an issue specific to Autism.

However, I do think that people on the spectrum are among the effective "Canaries in the Coal Mine", per inherent propensity toward these greater difficulties in this type of new required social/environmental adaptation.

With that perspective taken, this thread is in someways a cautionary tale for the rest of society. Perhaps we are, in part, singing the song of the "Canary in the Coal mine".

In this event it is not a noxious gas or vaccines that is the offender. It is a way of life, at least in part, that people are attempting to escape that they are "virtually" trapped in, per "Catch 22", in what is becoming an effective life that is "Matrix", in nature, for some.

I think I feel another blog post coming on. The Wrong Planet is an excellent stim for that stim too.

I appreciate the insightful discussion, Agentpalpatine. I never stop learning, as a result of people like you and many others on this website. That feels like community for me. Much more satisfying than my old stim of Video Games, before I more effectively adapted to communicate in written words.

Why the hell would anyone wanna live in an autistic country? With a few small changes my current country would be fine.

Aghogday, I'm going to take the above (sorta) out of context, because discussions of BAP can spill over multiple threads at once, so I'll skip that discussion today.

I see two or three different routes Aspies can take to have an Aspie community.

1. Form offline (social?) groups, work from there. Has the advantage that you spend time in getting to know people, rather than spending money up front. Has the disadvantage that it will take some time, and there arn't great incentives to join the group right away.

2. In something of a hybrid between different models, acquire* a piece of rural land, probably a run down cabin or something along those lines. Turn it into an informal/formal "camp" experence, kinda like Habitat for Community meets (insert program relating to rural areas). The details of such an idea are beyond me, tbh, but I throw that idea out in case anyone's interested.

3. Aspie-affilated person/company purchases an existing residental building in an urban enviroment. Aspie-affilated businesses/mobile workers move to the location. You'd have what amounts to a first generation Aspie mini-community, and mostly financed through a long-term mortgage.

After almost 6 years of reading these concepts, I've come to the conclusion that we want to stay as close to "Traditional" business models as possible, to cut down complexity and to save time. Something like this is bound to have issues, so why go out of the way to create new ones?

In context to my last comment in the other thread I started, I think you are spot on, in your analysis.

The creating new ones, is not likely going to ever get off the ground. It does not seem possible or possibly even overall advantageous to return to "agri culture", or some radical change that people have not currently adapted to.

At least for me, I'm quite sure part of the reason I continue and have continued to exist, is because of the "Autistic Matrix".

Perhaps that was not the same for previous generations that did not start with much of a cultural plate of complexity in life, but those days are gone.

The Union of Executive Dysfunction

How exactly would national defense work?

Would being able to live independently be a requirement for citizenship? That seems discriminatory.

How would you screen for misdiagnosed psychopaths?

What if an autistic couple in this "country" had an NT child? Would the NT child lose his/her citizenship?

What about the 5-1 male-female ratio? I only live in cities with a 5-1 female-male ratio.

Contracted out to the country surrounding us, as happens in Europe.

That would depend on whether they'd need to,

By not testing the people who want to join, and then dealing with any psychopaths the same way current countries do (on second thought, hopefully a lot better).

No.

The 5-1 male-female ratio is a myth, caused by girls being underdiagnosed.

I would'nt be so quick to rule out "Aspie Acres", but it does have more of a start-up cost issue. It'll be resolved eventually. As Inventor has pointed out before, a village surrounded by an agriculural "belt" makes sense.

Even an "Aspie Matrix" needs an offline component, and I while I think "AspieBURG" will be earlier to appear, we all need to get our food somewhere.