Three-state solution?

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Tequila
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13 Mar 2013, 12:41 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Now write it out a hundred times...

Strike with a sjambok to those who don't comply?

thomas81
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13 Mar 2013, 2:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

I agree that (Sharia) Islam has too much power in Palestinian society. The Israelis militant heavy handed approach is only serving to tighten the Islamic stranglehold.

At some point they need to accept their onus as the dominant power and to start acting with an air of example.

You sound like Ghandi who recommended that the Jews bare their throats to the Nazis. Taurus Cacas I say to that.

ruveyn

...the important detail is that the third reich was a world power whose empire, leading the planet in military technology stretched a continent with an army that was the envy of the world.

The Palestinian authority is and has none of these things.

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Tequila
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13 Mar 2013, 2:55 pm

thomas81 wrote:

The Palestinian authority is and has none of these things.

So massacring random Israeli women and children on buses, in pizza shops and in cafés is reasonable just because the Israelis can militarily defend themselves?

My God, your ethics are messed up.

thomas81
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13 Mar 2013, 2:59 pm

Tequila wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

The Palestinian authority is and has none of these things.

So massacring random Israeli women and children on buses, in pizza shops and in cafés is reasonable just because the Israelis can militarily defend themselves?

You can get as emotive and sanctimonius as you like, it still doesnt make Hamas attacks anywhere near analogous to nazi war crimes.

my god your sense of historical proportionality is messed up.

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0_equals_true
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13 Mar 2013, 3:10 pm

Your constant deference of Hamas is astounding.

There are plenty of people who support Palestinian cause without endorsing Hamas. Why would anyone with half a clue want to support Hamas?

I notice (here and on other threads), you equate morality with capability. You got it wrong, intent is the most important thing. In terms of intent Hamas is no different from the Nazis, and it not for want of trying that they haven't succeeded.

I would also look at how they treat opposition and minorities within their territory.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:12 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

Your constant deference of Hamas is astounding.

There are plenty of people who support Palestinian cause without endorsing Hamas. Why would anyone with half a clue want to support Hamas?

Because he hates Israelis for being Israelis.

0_equals_true wrote:

I notice (here and on other threads), you equate morality with capability. You got it wrong, intent is the most important thing. In terms of intent Hamas is no different from the Nazis, and it not for want of trying that they haven't succeeded.

Exactly. Hamas are Nazis in Islamic uniform, and Fatah is very little better.

0_equals_true wrote:

I would also look at how they treat opposition and minorities within their territory.

I'd love to post pictorial evidence of this, but he is fully aware of how Hamas and how the PA treats its people and the racist speeches that both entities give (because I've told him and provided evidence), so frankly he's not worth the steam off one's pee.

He loves to give a moral equivalence to Likud and Hamas too, so you can see what moral plane he's on.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:19 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

There are plenty of people who support Palestinian cause without endorsing Hamas.

He doesn't support Hamas, he supports Fatah. In practical rhetorical terms, there's not much difference.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:28 pm

There are PLO politicians that respect the two state solution idea, and even support the idea of dual nationality for settler (which is pretty generous under the circumstances).

Fatah is just one part.

In Gaza there is only one party and one militia. OK that is not true there is some minor radical Islamist militias, that's it. Anyone else best keep their opinions to themselves.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:29 pm

Tequila wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

There are plenty of people who support Palestinian cause without endorsing Hamas.

He doesn't support Hamas, he supports Fatah. In practical rhetorical terms, there's not much difference.

He has consistently endorsed them, whether he says he supports them.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:34 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

There are PLO politicians that respect the two state solution idea/

They will be popular amongst the Palestinians.

I have a tenner here that says they say something completely different in Arabic. It's an old trick amongst the Palestinians that is finally beginning to be exposed.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:39 pm

Tequila wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

Your constant deference of Hamas is astounding.

There are plenty of people who support Palestinian cause without endorsing Hamas. Why would anyone with half a clue want to support Hamas?

Because he hates Israelis for being Israelis.

Not at all. I fully understand that there are progressive Israelis within Israel who want a mutually amicable deal with the Palestinians. The true problem is ultra right parties like likud who are playing to the whims of a self righteous Israeli electorate who view the arabs as nothing more than an affront to their promised land to be dispensed with.

The real racism is from zionists both in the middle east and america/europe who see the Israelis as 'white' therefore they must be ethically and morally superior to all arabdom.

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Last edited by thomas81 on 13 Mar 2013, 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thomas81
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13 Mar 2013, 3:42 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

Tequila wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

There are plenty of people who support Palestinian cause without endorsing Hamas.

He doesn't support Hamas, he supports Fatah. In practical rhetorical terms, there's not much difference.

He has consistently endorsed them, whether he says he supports them.

lie. I said I understand why the Gazans support them, even though i dont agree with their views.

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ScrewyWabbit
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13 Mar 2013, 3:42 pm

thomas81 wrote:

Tequila wrote:

thomas81 wrote:

The Palestinian authority is and has none of these things.

So massacring random Israeli women and children on buses, in pizza shops and in cafés is reasonable just because the Israelis can militarily defend themselves?

You can get as emotive and sanctimonius as you like, it still doesnt make Hamas attacks anywhere near analogous to nazi war crimes.

my god your sense of historical proportionality is messed up.

You do realize that intentionally targeting civilians is a war crime? That conducting military operations from civilian areas is a war crime?

Maybe that's not as bad, per se, as attempting to commit genocide, however in this case based on Hamas's rhetoric and past behavior, the issue for them is not a lack of desire, only a lack of ability. Remember, they've demonstrated time and time again the willingness to kill themselves and each other if it means taking out a few Israelis too. Imagine what they'd do if they had military superiority over the Isralis.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:45 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

You do realize that intentionally targeting civilians is a war crime? That conducting military operations from civilian areas is a war crime?

They deliberately hide behind their own innocent men, women and children, which is also a war crime. They love it when their own people are unfortunately harmed by Israel in the course of that country's self-defence against Hamas rockets. To Hamas, the lives of ordinary Gazans are worth little when they cannot be used in their murderous hate campaign against Israel.

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13 Mar 2013, 3:47 pm

Nambo wrote:

daydreamer84 wrote:

Most people seem to forget this. They also forget that while a lot of this land was owned by wealthy Arabs (before the Jews bought it) no Arabs were living on it. It was uncultivated and not fit to live on-nothing would grow on it -parts of it were swampland like the Negev desert-which is a relatively large expanse of land. The Jews came and cultivated the land and then it could be lived on and fought over. I'm not saying this was the case for all of Israel but large parts of it.

Whilst I realise that its not the fault of young Jews that they belive such lies for this is what they are taught, just like the Hitler Youth believed what they were taught, its not true that Palestine was an empty desert with nobody living there as if God was keeping it for his chosen ones.

It was a thriving country in as much as any middle eastern country cam be called such heres a film of Palestine from

No that's not true...these aren't lies told by jews you're wrong. Tel Aviv was most;y swampland uncultivated HULA VALLEY

and the Negev was largely uninhabited and undeveloped in the modern era link- negev

Not quite a thriving country but pockets were developed and productive.

I said in my OP that it didn't mean the whole of Israel was undeveloped but large parts WERE. I never said anything about the land waiting for its chosen people and believe no such thing.

Edited so many times for technical reasons ........computer issues....it would oly post Nambos quote not my response for awhile. Anti-Israeli computer system? =)

Last edited by daydreamer84 on 13 Mar 2013, 4:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.

thomas81
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13 Mar 2013, 3:52 pm

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

You do realize that intentionally targeting civilians is a war crime?

Even if Hamas weren't targetting civillians, they would still be regarded as criminals since Hamas is internationally regarded as a terrorist entity. That said, many organisations internationally who aren't even directly involved in violence are regarded as 'terrorists'.

Perhaps if Israel didnt allow settlements within range of Hamas rockets, this wouldnt be an issue. In fact if anything Israel should share the culpibility for exploiting human shields.

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

That conducting military operations from civilian areas is a war crime?

That makes the British army war criminals, since they used to conduct foot patrols outside protestant schools in Northern Ireland to hide behind children on their way home.
I remember this well, since I was one of those children.

ScrewyWabbit wrote:

Maybe that's not as bad, per se, as attempting to commit genocide, however in this case based on Hamas's rhetoric and past behavior, the issue for them is not a lack of desire, only a lack of ability. Remember, they've demonstrated time and time again the willingness to kill themselves and each other if it means taking out a few Israelis too. Imagine what they'd do if they had military superiority over the Isralis.

They will never have military superiority since there is no potential sympathetic sponsor to arm them.

The desire is meaningless without the means. If Israel reversed its current policy on its affairs with the Palestinians, it would weaken Hamas's support base and they could be removed by the gazans themselves either democratically or through an internal coup d'etat.

If Israel was clever they would work with Hamas's internal opponents rather than throwing petrol on the flames of hatred.

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