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do you strive to be a true christian?

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MCalavera
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18 Jun 2013, 10:13 am

androbot2084 wrote:
So what prevented the rich young ruler from selling all that he had and giving to the poor? It was the love of money. Unless a person loves money there is no rational reason to hold on to money while letting the poor suffer. Under Christianity the needs of the people come first.

Of course the filthy rich billionaires will say that Jesus died for their sins so it no longer matters whether or not they keep their money because you cannot earn your salvation. So these billionaires love their money so much that they would allow an innocent man to die so they would not have give one dime to the poor and still claim to be righteous in front of God? And worse these rich billionaires denounce charitable men as evil communists who love to give handouts to the undeserving poor. So that means that the billionaires were never sinners in the first place but were actually righteous men who blessed by God and in reality if you were poor that means that God cursed you so who's fault was that?


Good thinking, but Jesus didn't have in mind that the world was going to persist to this day anyway.



ruveyn
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18 Jun 2013, 10:24 am

MCalavera wrote:
That's what you'd like to think. I think Christians who are happy being wealthy dread the idea of giving all their money and properties away. Not that I blame them. Who wants to get rid of all his earnings anyway just to follow someone whom you're not really sure actually exists?


Oh ye of little faith!



ruveyn
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18 Jun 2013, 10:25 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
At one time it was fashionable for a millionaire to take a vow of poverty, sell everything and give to the poor and spend the rest of his life living on a monastery. Nowadays God wants his followers to become filthy rich.


Which God is this? I want to find Him and worship Him.

He sound like a much better God than the one who insists on righteousness.

ruveyn


It is I. By the by, you have quite of lot of tithes to catch up on. :shameonyou:


Not true. I have been tithing all my adult life.

ruveyn



MCalavera
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18 Jun 2013, 10:53 am

ruveyn wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
That's what you'd like to think. I think Christians who are happy being wealthy dread the idea of giving all their money and properties away. Not that I blame them. Who wants to get rid of all his earnings anyway just to follow someone whom you're not really sure actually exists?


Oh ye of little faith!


I see Buddhist monks follow Jesus' original teachings much more than Christians do.



Kraichgauer
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18 Jun 2013, 12:17 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
So what prevented the rich young ruler from selling all that he had and giving to the poor? It was the love of money. Unless a person loves money there is no rational reason to hold on to money while letting the poor suffer. Under Christianity the needs of the people come first.

Of course the filthy rich billionaires will say that Jesus died for their sins so it no longer matters whether or not they keep their money because you cannot earn your salvation. So these billionaires love their money so much that they would allow an innocent man to die so they would not have give one dime to the poor and still claim to be righteous in front of God? And worse these rich billionaires denounce charitable men as evil communists who love to give handouts to the undeserving poor. So that means that the billionaires were never sinners in the first place but were actually righteous men who blessed by God and in reality if you were poor that means that God cursed you so who's fault was that?


If those particular filthy billionaires had real faith, they'd be living that faith by caring for those without - like Bill Gates and his wife.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



AngelRho
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18 Jun 2013, 1:11 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
So what prevented the rich young ruler from selling all that he had and giving to the poor? It was the love of money. Unless a person loves money there is no rational reason to hold on to money while letting the poor suffer. Under Christianity the needs of the people come first.

Of course the filthy rich billionaires will say that Jesus died for their sins so it no longer matters whether or not they keep their money because you cannot earn your salvation. So these billionaires love their money so much that they would allow an innocent man to die so they would not have give one dime to the poor and still claim to be righteous in front of God? And worse these rich billionaires denounce charitable men as evil communists who love to give handouts to the undeserving poor. So that means that the billionaires were never sinners in the first place but were actually righteous men who blessed by God and in reality if you were poor that means that God cursed you so who's fault was that?


If those particular filthy billionaires had real faith, they'd be living that faith by caring for those without - like Bill Gates and his wife.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'm pretty sure Bill Gates doesn't have any faith. Faith and generosity don't necessarily have anything to do with each other, but as far as a model for generosity goes, Bill Gates isn't a bad example. My whole point was just that having billions doesn't make someone evil.

Faith-based giving would rather seek anonymity, so if you don't hear about Christians giving all they have to charity, it's likely because they want their work to speak for itself, to glorify God rather than to funnel all the glory to the giver.



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18 Jun 2013, 2:01 pm

Would someone PLEASE tell me what it takes to be a "True Christian"?

Or should I re-post my own subjectively-derived list of characteristics?

Maybe if just one of you would declare him- or her-self to be a "True Christian", that would be a good place to start ...



Kraichgauer
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18 Jun 2013, 2:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Would someone PLEASE tell me what it takes to be a "True Christian"?

Or should I re-post my own subjectively-derived list of characteristics?

Maybe if just one of you would declare him- or her-self to be a "True Christian", that would be a good place to start ...


Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Fnord
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18 Jun 2013, 2:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Would someone PLEASE tell me what it takes to be a "True Christian"? ...
Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Thanks, Bill!

Now, if only someone would claim to actually be a "True Christian", we could start whittling down some of the pretension around here.



ruveyn
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18 Jun 2013, 2:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Both of these are among the 613 commandments given to the Israelites. Does that mean Jews are True Christians.

It is in the TNKH in Safer Va'Yikrah (what you heathens call Levitcus) in parshat K'doshim.

ruveyn



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18 Jun 2013, 2:39 pm

Fnord wrote:
Would someone PLEASE tell me what it takes to be a "True Christian"?

Or should I re-post my own subjectively-derived list of characteristics?

Maybe if just one of you would declare him- or her-self to be a "True Christian", that would be a good place to start ...


It's too subjective for you to ever find an indisputable benchmark example. I've heard two or three or more devout Christians at a time get into heated debates over this question and none of them were particularly right or wrong.


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MCalavera
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18 Jun 2013, 2:44 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Would someone PLEASE tell me what it takes to be a "True Christian"? ...
Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Thanks, Bill!

Now, if only someone would claim to actually be a "True Christian", we could start whittling down some of the pretension around here.


I think the most "objective" way possible would be to use the New Testament as benchmark, but then again even that is an impossible feat due to the contradictions within it.



Fnord
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18 Jun 2013, 2:46 pm

Raptor wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Would someone PLEASE tell me what it takes to be a "True Christian"? Or should I re-post my own subjectively-derived list of characteristics? Maybe if just one of you would declare him- or her-self to be a "True Christian", that would be a good place to start ...
It's too subjective for you to ever find an indisputable benchmark example. I've heard two or three or more devout Christians at a time get into heated debates over this question and none of them were particularly right or wrong.

Same here.

[opinion=mine]

Put two or more "True Christians" at the same luncheon and the only thing they're likely to agree on is the poor choice of menu items.

[/opinion]

I'd really like to meet a True Christian before I die.



Fnord
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18 Jun 2013, 2:47 pm

MCalavera wrote:
I think the most "objective" way possible would be to use the New Testament as benchmark...

NIV or King James?



TheValk
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18 Jun 2013, 2:47 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Both of these are among the 613 commandments given to the Israelites. Does that mean Jews are True Christians.

It is in the TNKH in Safer Va'Yikrah (what you heathens call Levitcus) in parshat K'doshim.

ruveyn


What is implied by 'neighbour' in that context however? Fellow Jew only?



Kraichgauer
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18 Jun 2013, 2:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Both of these are among the 613 commandments given to the Israelites. Does that mean Jews are True Christians.

It is in the TNKH in Safer Va'Yikrah (what you heathens call Levitcus) in parshat K'doshim.

ruveyn


I think most Christians would agree Christ is also recognized as God. But hey, if Jews want to go that route... :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer