All the problems with Christianity

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By your own account, God *created* the free will of the big 4 meanies - Mao, Hirohito, Stalin and Hitler (valid comparison, so no Godwin here). With a blink of an eye He could have suspended the free will of these butchers (as He is omnipotent) to prevent them from carrying out the largest genocides in the history of mankind (which He of course knew about before they took place, as He is omniscient).

He did *not* intervene. And He is *not* responsible?

To quote the Great Infidel:

"Epicurus's old questions are yet unanswered. Is he willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then is he impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then is he malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?"

And my corollary: Is he neither able nor willing? Then he is not God, but Man.

There are two ways to interpret the Bible- literally or contextually. Whether an actual person named Adam or actual Eve existed, is up for debate, but for purposes of my faith at least, either way it does not change my core beliefs of Christianity. Think of all the parables Jesus told; was he describing actual historical people in those parables or was he telling a story to illustrate a truth? Would his parables be any less enlightening either way? I do not think so, but that is a separate debate.

The Genesis Creation story, whether 100% historically accurate or not, illustrates a key point that through free will humans let evil into the world. Some scholars define evil as the absence of God. Since we have free will, we can choose to dismiss God from our presence and He will honor that request. Where God is not, evil is present. Where God is, good is present. Evil is the absence of God, and God is Love! Therefore, when we fail to do something loving (like feed the hungry, shelter the poor, love our spouses, etc.) we fail to invite Go into our lives.

I know you are probably thinking, "how does this have anything to do with this discussion on Christianity". I bring it up because a major stumbling block for some atheists is if God is so Loving, why does evil exist? The reason why is because we can choose to move away from him. Another stumbling block is, "why did God give us humans the option to move away from him in the first place (through free will) even though He knows this will hurt us?" This is a question admittedly that I cannot answer without relying on Faith. What I can say is that through Faith, I believe that God is all-good and all-loving, and therefore His giving us free will--indeed our very existence-- was an act of Mercy. I believe that he can draw straight with crooked lines; and bring even a greater good out of our catastrophic Fall.

If you can make this leap of faith, and see God as all loving and as all merciful, then you can see his law as something worthy to be followed. And his law is to love Him, our neighbor, and ourselves. Its a shame that people get so hung up over the Creation story and miss out on the "directions on how to love" given to us by Chirst. Because in loving we will find fulfillment and a glimpse of the Kingdom of God.

Advice for atheists? Try Christianity for two weeks. And when I say try, I do not simply just following a law. But try to go out of your way to help someone out. Maybe volunteer a few hours at a soup kitchen or a hospital. Do something for the sake of being loving, and I am willing to bet your life would be enriched because of it. Try not to see Jesus's directions as arbitrary punishments or restrictions, rather see them as instructions to help us learn to Love again.

And also, just keep positive. I know alot of you are hurting out there and may be turned away from God as a result. Put your faith in him, he has prepared a place for you in heaven and will help you make life better on Earth His Mercy and Love are endless!!

I know this may not be super relevant to our discussion, but its a shame to miss out on the fruits of Faith in Jesus just because we cannot dig up and fully trace all the roots of the tree from which it springs.

Very presumptuous and patronising to assume only Christians love and help others. Rather typical too.

But alas this is a thread promising to sort out "all the problems with Christianity"

This is indeed a separate debate, and one which is of far more interest to me - however, for fear of hijacking the thread it's definitely best left alone here.



I disagree. Again, if we accept the Bible as truth, a supposedly perfect God is responsible for everything he creates and is therefore ultimately accountable for the actions and failures of his creations. If God created heaven and earth and all therein, he's also responsible for good, evil, pain, suffering, republicans, etc.



"Some scholars said something" is hardly a credible line. Drawing conclusions based on the definitions of a handful of theologians seems like a flimsy basis for your argument.



This is not a stumbling block for atheists. The burden of responsibility in answering this question does not fall upon their shoulders.



No. Evil exists because we have a need to define literally everything.



A more important question is "if God is perfect, why the need to create human beings at all?". If, as Christians believe, God is an all-powerful, perfect being, there is no logical reason for him to create anything that is imperfect. Perfection does not seek improvement, perfection is already as good as it can be. There can be no "greater good" for a perfect God. If God does indeed exist, then humans are proof of his imperfection. This would challenge any suggestion that his creation of our species was "an act of mercy".



If you are a well-adjusted human being then you will strive, regardless of your beliefs (or lack thereof) to be a better person. One does not need to believe in any god to understand the very simplistic teachings that are found in the Bible. Christians - indeed theists as a collective - do not hold the monopoly on decency, nor are they the only human beings capable of love. One might argue that the good deeds of Christians are lessened by their beliefs - I have yet to meet the atheist who helps a fellow human being out due to their fear of being eternally punished.



Advice for Christians? Spend every waking minute of every day doing the above, else keep your holier-than-thou smug attitude to yourselves. Do something for the sake of being loving, and not for the sake of stroking your own fragile egos. Show some regard to your fellow human beings by realising that, just because they don't share your delusions they are not inferior or less capable of being good, kind, decent people.



Yet another problem with Christianity is the way that many of its practitioners turn any discussion into an attempt to indoctrinate others into their faith. Rather than continuing your attempt at converting those of us who take the time to read your post, please explain how endless mercy ties in with drowning the entire human race (bar one family)?





Indeed. One of the most ironic aspects of Christianity is that their holy book teaches them to believe that they are superior to non-Christians - in direct conflict with one of their own deadly sins.

The existence of any form of evil downgrades the goodness of the world that it exists in. Lack of evil is the ultimate goodness in any world.

Franz Von Ztuck,The Sin.

Then why don't 'god' create humans such that they have free will, can theoretically do evil, but it just happens that humans never actually does anything evil?

Nope. The major 'stumbling block' is that 'God' is just nonsense gibberish.

^ This more or less. I'm bemused that people are debating how to interpret the Genesis part of the bible but missing the most important thing... it is all mythology. None of it is real anyway. Does it matter how the myths are interpreted? Does it matter if Prometheus stole fire from the gods or if he stole a Zippo lighter or a box or matches? This whole debate around Adam and Eve and snakes and sin is just nonsense. It is like hearing people taking about the drama of the lives of characters in soap operas - they aren't real folks!

Christian theologians love to debate things like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin but at the end of the day it is a debate about nonsense. Anyway, I'm not wasting any more time on this silly thread.

When reading Genesis, it seems to me like the types of stories aimed at children with talking snakes and animals on a boat. Genesis 1 indicates that the top of the sky is made of water, which might sound reasonable to a pre-scientific, primitive society or to a child. After all, the ocean is blue and water occasionally falls from the sky. These seem like responses to the questions of children when the adults have no idea how to answer them. These myths really are no different from Norse, Greek or any other myths. They are all man-made when humanity was in its infancy.

These myths are childish things. It is time to put away childish things.

Yes, they are myths, and it is just as silly to interpret them as allegories of some divine truth as it is to interpret them literally.

In other words, you don't need to be a Christian to do any of the above. Which supports the point of how unnecessary Christianity (or any religion/faith) is when it comes to applying love for others.

I'm too good a person to try Christianity even as an experiment.

I don't think "trying to be a Christian" will be an authentic experience, either.

Anyway, the last two pages or so of posts read like they were composed by the same person.

What advice do you have for atheists who were raised as Christians and thus have already 'tried' Christianity for much longer than two weeks? How does one just 'try' Christianity anyway? You don't need to be religious to 'volunteer a few hours at a soup kitchen or a hospital', or to 'do something for the sake of being loving'. Atheists do things like that too (not all, certainly, but not all Christians do either). All that actually separates Christianity from atheism is what you believe, and frankly if you can turn a belief on or off at will then you're clearly not a very rational person.

That is very interesting that you look at it that way. That is the sign of one who is one with all; there is a communication that flows with the science of the golden spiral. It is a mathematical formula if you will. When you reach that point you will know by the voice within and out.

I attempted to post this message of love and it was deleted a little while ago. I am going to attempt to share here again. As there is no explanation offered to me why it was deleted. Most amusing to me that a message of pure love could be seen as offensive but that appears to reflect time as now in some places.

There should be no fear to click on love if you want to see it. Not the love of affection; the love of light that is One all.

http://katiemiaaghogday.blogspot.com/20 ... 8-t-n.html

Today was a wonderful day of
celebration for me.

I have risen from the ashes
like a Phoenix
since 2006
when
I
started a path of
human exhaustion
leading to many health
problems culminating in
a place I can only describe as
'Hell' on earth at the bottom of
a span of 1 hour of sleep each night
for 35 days and 5 at the end of 40 with
no sleep at all.

In beginning of March 2008 I developed
a type of atypical nerve pain behind my
right eye that was like someone stabbing
me in the eye 24/7 for 5 years until I started
this spiritual journey March 1, 2013, with
this blog starting on March 10, 2013.
I played the song
above in 2007 creating
the music to attempt to
re-attach my emotions that
were lost to severe and unrelenting
stress as an Athletic Director of
a military installation.

There was a Female Captain
that no one could please, who
took me and many others through
a metaphorical journey of hell at work.

There is no drug that will
touch the type of nerve pain I experienced.
The only solution was to kill the
nerve in my face; which
I could not face as
there could be
paralysis.

From March 2008
until November 26th 2010
my eyes also would not
make tears which
was the equivalent
of swimming
in salt
water
with
eyes open.

I spent many days, months..
eventually 2 and a half years..
thinking..I could not
read..listen to music
watch TV; there was
only thinking.
I was
not able
to listen to music
until I started this
journey too, as the
nerve pain affected my
ears too.

At the start of this journey
my goal was to once again
be able to visit and enjoy the
beautiful Gulf Island National
Seashore that is one of the most
beautiful paradises that exist on this
earth.

In my journey of typing on the internet
starting in November 2010 I find
the ability to withstand the pain
of the light of the screen
taking the mind off the
pain exploring logical
discussions with many
people on the internet.

I spent years of roaming that beach
as a young man and child.

It is the same beach that
is recorded in the video
'Captain of Her Heart' I link
in the Revelation 66 post.

This journey of blog
works to reconnect my
emotions, and love both
spiritual and human affection.

I uploaded the piano music I created
from a dictation device, that started
my ability to listen to music again
in March of this year.

The music that is favorite for my younger
years re-attached the emotion with

mind and language allowing me
to ultimately connect to my family again.

Along the way I found my spiritual life
again, finding the ecstasy of
spirit at a level I have
never experienced
before in my life.

At the start of
rise out of
ashes I was
having to take
4 MG of Ativan
to sleep at night
with the eye pain.

My pain is at a low enough
level where I finally celebrated
a night without any Ativan last
night after a slow and painful
weaning of this most powerful
anti-anxiety medication.
It saved my life to
sleep but almost
destroyed my
ability to
feel or
remember
emotons.

I am diagnosed
with a form of Autism
where I was a non-verbal
child until age 4.

I have always had difficulty
with emotion and language,
but I did not ever
think I would
get them
back
with that pain
that lasted
24/7...
there
was
only pain
and empty discussions
of rationality on the internet.

In this spiritual journey
that went into full speed
on 4/27/2013 with
a post called Autism
and the Nautilus
I lost most of
the pain
and regained
as much strength
in body and spirit
as I have had all my life.

That picture of the beach
is were I landed at the end of this
day with my wife and I again
enjoying this wonderful
paradise of beach.

I looked at it in pictures so long
but being there with eyes without
pain was pure bliss.

I stood trancing at the
waves coming in
matching the
waves I feel
in mind
as now
I connect
to a place
that is almost
magical with
connection of
one and all
in mind.

If God had
took me then
my life would be
complete.
But..
it's
not time
to go yet. :)

My wife is 43 and
she is as beautiful as she
ever was at 19 when I met her
at age 29.

I marveled at her
beauty as she walked the
beach and found a nautilus
type shell for me with
my favorite shape
of 6 of golden
spiral.
When we
capture it
with photo I am
going to link it here
at the top of this topic
to represent this pure white
shell I find myself in soul now.

I went to the doctor today and the
health is wonderful again.
My testosterone was a problem
when there was pain but is
now measured at 666 the patterns
of 6 I like so much because
there are three in my birthday.
Feeling as this number represents
the golden spiral along with 9 for life.

I recently find that there is a pattern
of flow of words of speech and typing
that match this ratio of life too.
One can see it in the shapes
that form in my typing throughout
this blog as the songs
of Nautilus Golden Ratio sing in
the archetype of mind and
Universe with me one and all.

My song I created on the
piano was at the start of this
struggle to keep my soul.
It is interesting to
me too, as close
to midpoint in my
music the mood changes

to uplifting instead of pensive.

I explore these many archetypes of
mind and culture in this blog.

In linking the you tube videos
it brought me to this
wonderful dark haired woman
and stallion of black on the desert.
The Woman favors my
wife very much.

I feel that she is like this
woman taking the black
horse that was soul
carrying across the desert
to meet it's life again on the beach
that always was so much of soul to me.

I experience great joy, deep sadness,
true light spirit love and true will, with
the love of affection for my wife again
today all in one; once again
proving my soul and heart
of humanity.

The tears of joy stream down
my face
when I come to
this video and see the
whole of my wife who is
the guardian angel in this many
colored dresses taking me through
life guarding my soul no matter how
black it becomes after this pain that
is worse than any death I imagine
except for that death at the bottoms
of those last 5 of 40 days of no sleep;
a literal place of hell that is a thousand
years! in one moment!

I am thankful for every experience in life
as it takes me to this full
place of humanity and soul!

There is no possible way to
describe the happiness of
bliss I feel to be alive
on that beach again!

For anyone traveling
on this journey with me
in the background not speaking
I hope you feel my joy and can share
a part of it!

I am not sure what comes next but I am
ready for it!

Love and blessing true will to
all of you my friends!


KATiE MiA FredericK!

Yes, guys; it was worth it. :)

Last edited by aghogday on 19 Jul 2013, 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.