Why wages really are so low today

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So you are going to base your worldview on a mediocre Hollywood movie?

The matrix was pseudo-intellectual masturbation at best for teenage cyberpunk goths.

I simply pointed out a correlation.

Despite disparaging the movie, you did not address Agent Smith's conclusion that humans derive happiness from their suffering and misery (presumably, that they overcome or have to deal with). Possibly, this book will detail this at a high level, of humans feeling happier when they struggle to earn their money , rather than just being given the money.

This is also reflected in a tv show of the "Twilight Zone: A Nice Place To Visit" in which a gambler/womanizer/crook is sent to hell, and always wins at gambling, always is successful at criminal acts, and can get any woman he wants. He later realizes that happiness comes from suffering (losing and failing), and HELL is living without suffering.

His revelations come at time [21:40-end].

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btLFfHzWwQY[/youtube]

A correlation that proves itself true time and time again.

Give a man a million dollars, most of the time he will self-destruct. If he's lucky, he ends up just being poor again.

If that same man does something to EARN a million dollars, he is more likely to do something productive with it.

There is something that comes from making a good thing happen by your own two hands rather than just have it handed to you.

Parents giving their kids new cars...for example. The number of "responsible" kids who wouldn't squander such a gift is quite few. Making your kid work to get a USED car that's theirs, and if they trash it, that's their call, but so many kids who WORK to get their car treat it like a prized treasure because they are more INVESTED in that car.

/\
Hallelujah!

But now they'll say "But, but, but what about the people that don't have two hands", missing the point completely as usual.

I always thought this conversation, from the start, was about wages, you know, for work.

Nope, it was hijacked by people who want to discuss flat-earth econmics and stereotypes about the work ethic of poor people..

I think the premise that "wages are too low" may need some qualification.

Wages are too low for service workers ?
Wages are too low for the average American?
Wages are too low Americans with no college?

For me personally the more I work for something the less I tend to value it. When I finally get it I think it wasn't worth the trouble and I could have done without it or with something cheaper/easier.

No, I think my comment was quite relevant to the topic. It's not to your liking so therefor it must be a derailment or trolling.

zer0netgain seemed to be talking about people who expected things without any work. The OP was about how wages (for work) have crashed over the last half-century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... erage_wage

United States ranked #1

According to the above computation for average wage, Americans are on average the highest average wage earners in the world.

Yeah, well it all ties in. But ask me for my "scientific proof" anyway.

I reiterate, are wages really low or lower ?

Americans are on average the highest average wage earners in the world

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... erage_wage

American household income has increased over the last 34 years !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_ ... ted_States

[img][800:435]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/Median_US_household_income.png[/img]

American Real wages up since 1964 (though not by much)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_wage

"Economists agree: Raising the minimum wage reduces poverty"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... s-poverty/

Those charts have two fatal flaws that any person whose taken a basic statistics class can spot.

1. Median "household" income. If you factor all sources of income for a household, it skews the resulting average. That chart is proposed to be representative of a single income earner, but much of the numbers could reflect multiple incomes under one roof...making the average per job much lower.

2. Likewise, the wages chart (along with household income) is an AVERAGE. Many publications like to state (for example) the "average" starting wage of an attorney in a given state. Well, if you toss in the $1,000,000+ earners with the ones barely getting by, you get a respectable average wage. To be honest to the typical law school graduate, you have to omit those making excessively high wages to get a number that's more in line with the REALITY of what they can expect to earn in that state.

My household income is about half of the lowest point on that chart.