Happy MLK Day!

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Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2014, 3:45 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

MoonGateClimber wrote:

It's convenient for you liberals to forget about Senator Robert Byrd (D) who recruited 150 of his friends and associates to create a new chapter of the KKK in Sophia, West Virginia.

I am a conservative and firmly believe that America needs another MLK. Instead we are stuck with Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson, whose self-aggrandizing polarization does nothing to help solve the problem of racism. Dr. King would surely be ashamed of them.

No, we absolutely have not forgotten. But the fact of the matter is, Byrd in later life learned from the mistakes of his past, and changed. He was the living embodiment of King's dream of changing hearts and minds.
As for Sharpton and Jackson - while it's true that neither of these men are hardly without fault, those faults have been exaggerated by their critics. In fact, Al Sharpton, once himself a vile race baiter, has since reinvented himself and promotes a much wider message of inclusiveness. And as I pointed out earlier in this thread, I suspect that if Dr. King was alive today, the right wing would also count him with Jackson and Sharpton in their criticism.

That's true. Dr. King wasn't a total angel by any means. He was gunned down at a point in his life where any eventual character flaws would not have come to the fore.

While Dr. King wasn't perfect, I'm sure a lot of the criticisms leveled against him would have been been also been a combination of exaggerations and out and out lies if he was still alive today, as was the case during the 50's and 60's.

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ArrantPariah
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21 Jan 2014, 6:28 pm

Still, Dr. King is now a mythic figure in the American pantheon. Up there with George Washington and Abraham Lincoln.

However, I do find his political rehabilitation by the Republican Party to be quite fascinating. Back during the 1980s, the Republicans denounced Dr. King as a "traitor" and a "communist rabble-rouser." During his life, he was hounded by the FBI. Now, the Republicans have transmogrified him into a gun-slinging, Clint Eastwood-style heroic action figure. The Republicans completely ignore his vision, speeches and accomplishments, and instead focus everything on the fact that he owned some guns during the 1950s. And, they use his holiday as an excuse to raise funds through a gun raffle.

Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2014, 7:11 pm

^^^
And the 1980's wasn't all that long ago. I wonder how many of those Republican politicians who had attacked King are still in office?

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MoonGateClimber
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21 Jan 2014, 8:04 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:

I'd like to see some citation for that claim since it was Ronald Reagan who signed the holiday into law in 1983 and the two main arguments by opponents were that a paid holiday for federal employees would be too expensive, and that a holiday to honor a private citizen would be contrary to longstanding tradition (King had never held public office) I can believe that Dr. King was called these things in the 1950's or 60's but the 1980's seems a bit dubious. And also your narrative is quite skewed painting ALL Republicans with the same wide brush since this gun raffle was held in one Oregon county only.

Kraichgauer
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21 Jan 2014, 11:06 pm

To be sure, it wasn't all Republicans who defamed King, but there were those in the eighties who still held a dim view of him.

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ArrantPariah
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21 Jan 2014, 11:16 pm

MoonGateClimber wrote:

ArrantPariah wrote:

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/19/misled_ ... g_holiday/

I'm old enough to remember the uproar. Ronald Reagan wasn't at all enthusiastic about the holiday, but caved in and signed the holiday into law.

We have long had federal holidays for Christopher Columbus and Jesus Christ, of whom neither held public office in the United States.

TheGoggles
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21 Jan 2014, 11:59 pm

MoonGateClimber wrote:

Dixiecrats:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat

Conflating the Democratic Party with progressive politics is wrong enough, but doing it with the southern Democrats in the mid-1900's is just ignorant.

MoonGateClimber
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22 Jan 2014, 6:39 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

I'm old enough to remember the uproar. Ronald Reagan wasn't at all enthusiastic about the holiday, but caved in and signed the holiday into law.
We have long had federal holidays for Christopher Columbus and Jesus Christ, of whom neither held public office in the United States.

Thanks for the link. As I read it, some of the resistance was because it was felt that George Washington Carver or Booker T. Washington may have represented better role models. I don't know. Columbus Day was signed into law by FDR. And I find it rather odd since Columbus was also known to have captured and shipped slaves, who were in fact Indians, to Europe.

TheGoggles wrote:

Conflating the Democratic Party with progressive politics is wrong enough, but doing it with the southern Democrats in the mid-1900's is just ignorant.

I'm really not even sure what your point is. Robert Byrd was a democrat and despite his renunciations was the only senator to vote against both Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas to the United States Supreme Court.

TheGoggles
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22 Jan 2014, 12:08 pm

MoonGateClimber wrote:

Uhhh, I'm saying that Democratic Party Member=/=Leftist

ArrantPariah
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27 Jan 2014, 6:25 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03119.html

Robert Byrd was indeed quite nasty during his early career, but eventually repented of his evil ways.

Quote:

...He eventually became a passionate advocate for civil rights, and he was one of the most vocal supporters of legislation making the birthday of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. a national holiday....

He deserves at least some credit for coming around.

MoonGateClimber wrote:

Robert Byrd was a democrat and despite his renunciations was the only senator to vote against both Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas to the United States Supreme Court.

That seems to be a common trope.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/06/30 ... ator-byrd/

Glenn Beck wrote:

He was the only senator to vote against both African-American Supreme Court nominees Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas.

ArrantPariah
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27 Jan 2014, 6:58 pm

Regarding guns: Mr. Byrd's record was somewhat mixed

http://www.ontheissues.org/domestic/Rob ... ontrol.htm

MoonGateClimber
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28 Jan 2014, 5:33 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

MoonGateClimber wrote:

Robert Byrd was a democrat and despite his renunciations was the only senator to vote against both Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas to the United States Supreme Court.

That seems to be a common trope.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2010/06/30 ... ator-byrd/

Glenn Beck wrote:

He was the only senator to vote against both African-American Supreme Court nominees Thurgood Marshall and Clarence Thomas.

A more common trope is the tired fallacy that all conservatives listen to Glenn Beck. If you care to look at Robert Byrd’s’ Wikipedia page under the heading of political views, you will see the same statement I made, virtually verbatim. But then, perhaps Wikipedia mines their information from Glenn Beck.

Why is it that liberals are never content to simply disagree with people, they must also insult them? In this thread alone, I have been accused of being ignorant and having a herd mentality. Liberals always crow about their tolerance and diversity, yet as an Asian, I have found conservative types to be more impartial, amiable and helpful.

Kraichgauer
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28 Jan 2014, 5:37 am

Well, I'm delighted that anyone can put away racial animosity toward your Asian ethnicity, conservative or liberal.
But as far as liberals not actually being tolerant toward ideas they dislike - is intolerance to be tolerated?

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ArrantPariah
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28 Jan 2014, 9:06 am

One explanation is that Mr. Byrd voted against both Mr. Marshall and Mr. Thomas because of their skin pigmentation.

Another is that he voted against Mr. Marshall prior to his epiphany, and against Mr. Thomas after his epiphany.

Mr. Marshall was clearly one of the best Supreme Court judges that we have ever seen. Clarence Thomas is one of the worst.

Kraichgauer
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28 Jan 2014, 11:56 am

ArrantPariah wrote:

That was actually my feeling.

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