Ground Offensive Launched in Gaza

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AspE
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25 Jul 2014, 12:40 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

I saw an Israeli official on CNN yesterday blaming the Palestinians for making them kill civilians. I find that disingenuous. It's like the abuser saying that the abused made them do it.
I don't really support either side in this as I think they are both behaving badly, but take responsibility for your actions for heaven's sake.

They aren't doing it for the exercise. Hamas bombs them every day.

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25 Jul 2014, 1:35 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

Gaza UN school shelter hit, 'killing 13'-BBC

Quote:

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu said on Thursday he regretted each Palestinian civilian death, but said they were "the responsibility of Hamas".

The Israelis refuse to take responsibility for their actions. I see this as cowardly.

Not to mention heartless.
I personally tend to side with Israel as a western culture surrounded by hostile Islam. but the undeniable fact is, Netanyahu is a hardhearted, toxic assh*le.

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AspE
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25 Jul 2014, 2:12 pm

Ann2011 wrote:

Gaza UN school shelter hit, 'killing 13'-BBC

Quote:

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu said on Thursday he regretted each Palestinian civilian death, but said they were "the responsibility of Hamas".

The Israelis refuse to take responsibility for their actions. I see this as cowardly.

No news report I've seen places blame for the UN school hit definitively on Israel.

Ann2011
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25 Jul 2014, 3:57 pm

AspE wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

Gaza UN school shelter hit, 'killing 13'-BBC

Quote:

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu said on Thursday he regretted each Palestinian civilian death, but said they were "the responsibility of Hamas".

The Israelis refuse to take responsibility for their actions. I see this as cowardly.

No news report I've seen places blame for the UN school hit definitively on Israel.

Confusion over who was behind strike on UN shelter in Gaza - Globe & Mail

Quote:

Mark Regev, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it could have been Hamas that fired. ?It could also have been our fire,? he admitted.

It'll take a long time to sort out I suppose.

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25 Jul 2014, 6:28 pm

1024 wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

1024 wrote:

I think the "who was there earlier" arguments on any side are pretty moot.

So, what constitutes a nation? What legitimizes it? Hamas' charter doesn't exactly give any hints of civilization.

I don't really understand the question. People, obviously, constitute a nation, but I don't get how that requires further legitimation.

The context is ethics. Politics is a derivative of ethics. Hamas is a terrorist organization, their charter reflects it, and this is supposed to lay the foundation for a Palestinian state. I think it would be best if Israel went in and annexed Gaza in an effort to stop the madness once and for all. The West Bank should be next on the list, and the international community should offer Israel its support.

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25 Jul 2014, 6:44 pm

Humanaut wrote:

1024 wrote:

Humanaut wrote:

1024 wrote:

I think the "who was there earlier" arguments on any side are pretty moot.

So, what constitutes a nation? What legitimizes it? Hamas' charter doesn't exactly give any hints of civilization.

I don't really understand the question. People, obviously, constitute a nation, but I don't get how that requires further legitimation.

But that aint gonna happen. Not with the peace accords during the Clinton years still fresh in peoples' minds, and international sympathy for poor, militarily backward people like the Palestinians. And the fact is, if Israel is really part of the liberal democratic western tradition, they wouldn't dream of doing such a thing.

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Humanaut
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25 Jul 2014, 11:44 pm

I'm not holding my breath either.

cyberdad
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26 Jul 2014, 1:10 am

sonofghandi wrote:

My issue in the current situation is Israel's blatant disregard for Geneva convention combined with various justifications and rationalizations for their blatant human rights violations. I do not approve of the atrocities done by Hamas, but that does not diminish my disapproval of the revenge seven-fold mentality.

I agree the situation of Palestinian civilian deaths should be avoided. The problem for Israel is HAMAS takes potshots at Israelis then scurries back to Gaza and hides among the civilian population who are either too frightened or in cahoots. Palestinians see a peaceful Israeli state as a sign of weakness.

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26 Jul 2014, 1:15 am

Humanaut wrote:

I think it would be best if Israel went in and annexed Gaza in an effort to stop the madness once and for all. The West Bank should be next on the list, and the international community should offer Israel its support.

People have short memories that they can't remember the PLO used to stage international terror acts involving the murder of foreign nationals. The PLO were also allied with some rather unsavoury groups. HAMAS are almost certainly receiving aid and military training from other banned terrorist organisations. So far HAMAS is winning the propaganda war against Israel.

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26 Jul 2014, 2:05 am

cyberdad wrote:

So far HAMAS is winning the propaganda war against Israel.

That's not my impression. I think people are starting to understand the true nature of the conflict.

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26 Jul 2014, 4:17 am

Humanaut wrote:

I think people are starting to understand the true nature of the conflict.

My own impression is that they are as bad as each other and there are fanatics on both sides all too eager to start conflict and escalate it into mini wars. These conflicts have been going on for so many years that people of my generation barely notice any more; it is just the same old TV news. Israelis and Palestinians killing each other and each pumping out propaganda... nothing new there... wonder what the weather forecast is for this afternoon...

It is quite tragic really that this situation has been going on for so long that many people now think of the conflict as "normal" in that part of the world. Unfortunately it will likely still be going on long after I'm dead and those that follow me are dead.

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Humanaut
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26 Jul 2014, 4:54 am

The conflict has been blown out of proportions by the media. It's really nothing more than a series of sporadic skirmishes. Great for testing new weapon systems like Iron Dome, Trophy and similar tech, while at the same time grinding down the jihadi gene. The Israeli restraint could be a calculated exploitation of useful idiots. You can't blame them for that. It's just evolution baby.

Ann2011
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26 Jul 2014, 5:59 am

Humanaut wrote:

You're suggesting that the Palestinians need to be removed from the gene pool? Isn't that a bit genocidal?

Humanaut
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26 Jul 2014, 6:22 am

Ann2011 wrote:

You're suggesting that the Palestinians need to be removed from the gene pool?

You're suggesting that all Palestinians are jihadists?

Ann2011
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26 Jul 2014, 6:37 am

Humanaut wrote:

Ann2011 wrote:

You're suggesting that the Palestinians need to be removed from the gene pool?

You're suggesting that all Palestinians are jihadists?

Okay, so I wikipediaed jihad out of curiousity:

Quote:

Jihadism has been called an "offshoot" of Islamic revivalism of the 1960s and 1970s. The writings of Sayyid Qutb and Muhammad abd-al-Salam Faraj provide inspiration. The Soviet war in Afghanistan (1979?1989) is said to have "amplified the jihadist tendency from a fringe phenomenon to a major force in the Muslim world.[23] It served to produce foot soldiers, leadership and organization. Abdullah Yusuf Azzam provided propaganda for the Afghan cause. After the war veteran jihadists returned to their home countries and dispersed to other sites of Muslim insurgency such as Algeria, Bosnia and Chechnya creating a "transnational jihadist stream."

So who are you suggesting carries this jihad gene? Or am I being too literal and you are simply saying something like, "death to the enemy" or "this is Sparta?"

Humanaut
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26 Jul 2014, 6:48 am

The definition, and there are several definitions of jihad, depends on the context, which in this case is an armed conflict, thus we are dealing with the armed form of jihad known as jihadism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihadism

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