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Jacoby
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25 Jun 2015, 2:32 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Since the church shooting, and the flag controversy, Republican Presidential candidates have been scrambling to return donations given to them by a leader of the racist Conservative Citizens Council, which only mere decades ago had been called the White Citizens Council. This organization had begun life fighting against integration, and still opposes race mixing, immigration, and promotes the European race and culture of white southerners. My question is this - - considering that this organization's philosophy was well known, why the hell did any of these candidates, and past conservative politicians, take money from this source to begin with?!?!?!


Well I doubt most candidates have any idea who is donating money to them especially on that small of scale, personally I don't see the point of returning the money but I guess donating it to the families of victims in Charleston is a nice albeit pandering gesture. They don't say anything specifically racist on the statement on their site really, I don't know if they even have people check these things but I could see a staffer skimming thru it and not thinking much of it. They make a big deal about preserving and promoting the European heritage of this country and oppose all immigration that would change that, you can read between the lines there but its not specifically racist in plain text.



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25 Jun 2015, 2:48 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Since the church shooting, and the flag controversy, Republican Presidential candidates have been scrambling to return donations given to them by a leader of the racist Conservative Citizens Council, which only mere decades ago had been called the White Citizens Council. This organization had begun life fighting against integration, and still opposes race mixing, immigration, and promotes the European race and culture of white southerners. My question is this - - considering that this organization's philosophy was well known, why the hell did any of these candidates, and past conservative politicians, take money from this source to begin with?!?!?!


Well I doubt most candidates have any idea who is donating money to them especially on that small of scale, personally I don't see the point of returning the money but I guess donating it to the families of victims in Charleston is a nice albeit pandering gesture. They don't say anything specifically racist on the statement on their site really, I don't know if they even have people check these things but I could see a staffer skimming thru it and not thinking much of it. They make a big deal about preserving and promoting the European heritage of this country and oppose all immigration that would change that, you can read between the lines there but its not specifically racist in plain text.


The Conservative Citizens Council in fact is well known to conservative politicians. Haley Barber in fact had defended them a few years back by claiming that their racist image had been misconstrued by northerners - till reputable news sources countered his claims with the facts. After that, Barber distanced himself from the Council.
No, I'm not saying that every Republican politician is a racist, but they do seem to understand that such people provide them with donations, and votes.
And as the contributions that have since been returned often were a thousand dollars or more to most politicians (I believe Ted Cruz got over five thousand), I suspect these were hardly so small that they wouldn't be noticeable.
And no, it isn't just a matter of preserving European culture (as if it's in danger of disappearing), but the Council has also to this day opposed interracial marriage and integration. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.


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25 Jun 2015, 2:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Since the church shooting, and the flag controversy, Republican Presidential candidates have been scrambling to return donations given to them by a leader of the racist Conservative Citizens Council, which only mere decades ago had been called the White Citizens Council. This organization had begun life fighting against integration, and still opposes race mixing, immigration, and promotes the European race and culture of white southerners. My question is this - - considering that this organization's philosophy was well known, why the hell did any of these candidates, and past conservative politicians, take money from this source to begin with?!?!?!


Well I doubt most candidates have any idea who is donating money to them especially on that small of scale, personally I don't see the point of returning the money but I guess donating it to the families of victims in Charleston is a nice albeit pandering gesture. They don't say anything specifically racist on the statement on their site really, I don't know if they even have people check these things but I could see a staffer skimming thru it and not thinking much of it. They make a big deal about preserving and promoting the European heritage of this country and oppose all immigration that would change that, you can read between the lines there but its not specifically racist in plain text.


The Conservative Citizens Council in fact is well known to conservative politicians. Haley Barber in fact had defended them a few years back by claiming that their racist image had been misconstrued by northerners - till reputable news sources countered his claims with the facts. After that, Barber distanced himself from the Council.
No, I'm not saying that every Republican politician is a racist, but they do seem to understand that such people provide them with donations, and votes.
And as the contributions that have since been returned often were a thousand dollars or more to most politicians (I believe Ted Cruz got over five thousand), I suspect these were hardly so small that they wouldn't be noticeable.
And no, it isn't just a matter of preserving European culture (as if it's in danger of disappearing), but the Council has also to this day opposed interracial marriage and integration. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.


Yup. The republican party, as an institution, is not racist.

It's just the favored party of racists.



Jacoby
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25 Jun 2015, 3:43 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Since the church shooting, and the flag controversy, Republican Presidential candidates have been scrambling to return donations given to them by a leader of the racist Conservative Citizens Council, which only mere decades ago had been called the White Citizens Council. This organization had begun life fighting against integration, and still opposes race mixing, immigration, and promotes the European race and culture of white southerners. My question is this - - considering that this organization's philosophy was well known, why the hell did any of these candidates, and past conservative politicians, take money from this source to begin with?!?!?!


Well I doubt most candidates have any idea who is donating money to them especially on that small of scale, personally I don't see the point of returning the money but I guess donating it to the families of victims in Charleston is a nice albeit pandering gesture. They don't say anything specifically racist on the statement on their site really, I don't know if they even have people check these things but I could see a staffer skimming thru it and not thinking much of it. They make a big deal about preserving and promoting the European heritage of this country and oppose all immigration that would change that, you can read between the lines there but its not specifically racist in plain text.


The Conservative Citizens Council in fact is well known to conservative politicians. Haley Barber in fact had defended them a few years back by claiming that their racist image had been misconstrued by northerners - till reputable news sources countered his claims with the facts. After that, Barber distanced himself from the Council.
No, I'm not saying that every Republican politician is a racist, but they do seem to understand that such people provide them with donations, and votes.
And as the contributions that have since been returned often were a thousand dollars or more to most politicians (I believe Ted Cruz got over five thousand), I suspect these were hardly so small that they wouldn't be noticeable.
And no, it isn't just a matter of preserving European culture (as if it's in danger of disappearing), but the Council has also to this day opposed interracial marriage and integration. If that isn't racist, I don't know what is.


Yup. The republican party, as an institution, is not racist.

It's just the favored party of racists.


Gallup actually had a poll a couple gauging "the willingness to vote for candidates of various backgrounds"

Image

It would seem that true racists would probably skew independent more than anything but overall there isn't a lot difference in the willingness to vote for racial minorities. There seems to be a real prejudice against Muslims by Republicans but I think that has far more to do with religion and fear from the War on Terror than it does race. Kind of surprised 26% of Republicans would be willing to vote for a socialist tho.



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25 Jun 2015, 9:36 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Gallup actually had a poll a couple gauging "the willingness to vote for candidates of various backgrounds"

Image

It would seem that true racists would probably skew independent more than anything but overall there isn't a lot difference in the willingness to vote for racial minorities. There seems to be a real prejudice against Muslims by Republicans but I think that has far more to do with religion and fear from the War on Terror than it does race. Kind of surprised 26% of Republicans would be willing to vote for a socialist tho.



I honestly don't see how the parameters of that study would show which parties racists might vote for. I did almost make a crack about evangelical christians, but a lot of those are black folks.



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26 Jun 2015, 1:42 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Yup. The republican party, as an institution, is not racist.

It's just the favored party of racists.


All that tells you is that racists might generally favor small government policies with a higher likelihood of leaving them alone, though I suspect you were going for more of a guilt by association angle there.


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26 Jun 2015, 1:59 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
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The Confederate Cause was the right to property, which had been the law of the land since before the American Revolution. It was upheld in The Louisiana Purchase, where in a Treaty between Nations, The Napoleonic Code was retained. Louisiana still is Napoleonic Code. That Code has slavery.

"No Person shall be deprived of Property except by Due Process of Law, in a Court of Competent Jurisdiction."

It is the same as Obama deciding to rewrite the Constitution. By order of the President, all guns must be turned in to the Police now, and any found with a gun will be shot. All houses will be subject to search without warrant or notice. Freedom of Speech does not apply to objecting to Presidential Orders. Protestors will be shot.

Even under Imminent Domain, property seized will be paid a fair market value.

Capital invested in slaves was a legal investment, so it is the same as saying all Land Title reverts to the Government, and some may be allowed to rent it.

Upholding the Property Rights of Citizens is the First Obligation of Government.

Upholding the Constitution is the Oath all members of government must Swear to before taking office.

The Government took ownership of slaves, and shipped a lot to Liberia. They were not Citizens, and not asked if they wanted to go, they were just put on ships.

The Government did not free slaves and make them Citizens, they called them Contraband, something no one could own, and abandoned them. Nobody got the promised 40 acres and a mule, and a bag of gold.

Nobody got food, clothing, education, or a roof over their head.

It was like the Government now taking all land and housing, and setting people free in the streets.

Separate but equal schools were set up by white southerners. The Northern Government of occupation did nothing to educate Blacks. All employment was provided by White Southerners. They also provided food and clothing.

150 years later most Blacks live in the South. They will tell you, a KKK Cracker can be gotten along with, they will speak plainly, deals can be made. Northern people love the downtrodden, and rob them blind.

This Freedom has not worked according to the promise. Black people are at a disadvantage. Overall they have a lower IQ, but 75% are as smart as white people. 75% are church going workers raising families. They are also culturally Southern. We both think Yankees lie.

Black People of my generation, I am 70, had a Forth Grade Education. They got their children through High School. That generation got their children through College. The current generation is going for Grad School and the Professions. They are rising, so are Native Americans.

The Civil Rights Act, 1963, and giving Citizenship to Native Americans, 1974, was the National Government removing barriers they enacted in the first place. Blacks were not allowed guns during WWII, they could be cooks, load and unload trucks, but not drive them. A cook in Pearl Harbor got in trouble for manning an anti aircraft gun when the gun crew was killed. Negros were not allowed to fight back.

Native Americans were Hostile Combatants, Prisoners of War, for generations. Their status was Ward of the Government. Now Citizens since 1974. The last Indian War, Chief Joseph in 1895.

By those rules, we would still have Japanese in camps. Citizens rounded up and confined, men, women, children, old people.

Yes, it must be that half Black half White South that is imposing Racism on America.


Are you seriously defending the sale and purchase of human beings, just because it was legal at the time? Are you seriously saying that the American government under Lincoln was wrong to take human "property" away from slave masters? I could care less if slavery had been legal at the time; it was an evil institution, and there's no way around that.
You brought up Native Americans and their treatment as hostile nations. Living in the American west, that's a shameful legacy in my corner of the country. Just because it had been legal to treat Native peoples like enemies for living in their own country - which whites decided they wanted - hardly means it was alright. Today, Chief Joseph, who you had mentioned, is considered a hero here in the Northwest, because we whites realize that he and his people had been in the right.
As for the failure of a mule and forty acres to appear - that's more the fault of Andrew Johnson, Lincoln's pro-white southern successor, as he had purposely worked against the success of the Freedman's Bureau during Reconstruction, calling it an effort to "Africanize" the south. In fact, it was no such thing. And yes, in fact the north had provided education and economic advantage to freed blacks; but that had all been done away with by the racist forces of reaction that ensured that blacks remained an oppressed underclass, which had included the use of murder and terror by white terrorist organizations such as the KKK.
And as far as "separate but equal" school systems being something beneficial to southern blacks - are you sh*tting me!! ! I don't know of a single black American today who defends the substandard education provided to their kids in run down schools. As I recall, it was African Americans who had fought tooth and nail to end segregation, beginning in schools.
As for the charge that blacks have lower IQ's than whites - I raise you a Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and he's hardly the only black intellectual. And the contribution of black Americans to the arts - in particular, music - can't be underestimated. Intellectual achievement has more to do with environment than with genes, when whole populations are being discussed.
And sure, I have no doubt that there are southern blacks who reflect the regional prejudice of their white counterparts. But prejudice of any kind, whether it's racial, regional, or whatever, are based on caricatures and stereotypes rather than on actual facts.


Ah! The Spokane Nation! Where the laughter of the children fills the Valley, and joy fills their hearts.

A Great Nation the Spokane, Peace Makers, Horse Breeders, Traders. A people admired by all.

A welcoming people, who traded with the French, the trappers and mountain men, who aided Louis and Clark.

Diplomatic and intelligent, open and tolerant. After 8,000 years we know them well, and how they have protected their children's inheritance. Generation after generation they preserved land, buried their dead there.

How fairs the Spokane Nation, can you hear the laughter of the children?



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26 Jun 2015, 2:07 am

Inventor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inventor wrote:
The Confederate Cause was the right to property, which had been the law of the land since before the American Revolution. It was upheld in The Louisiana Purchase, where in a Treaty between Nations, The Napoleonic Code was retained. Louisiana still is Napoleonic Code. That Code has slavery.

"No Person shall be deprived of Property except by Due Process of Law, in a Court of Competent Jurisdiction."

It is the same as Obama deciding to rewrite the Constitution. By order of the President, all guns must be turned in to the Police now, and any found with a gun will be shot. All houses will be subject to search without warrant or notice. Freedom of Speech does not apply to objecting to Presidential Orders. Protestors will be shot.

Even under Imminent Domain, property seized will be paid a fair market value.

Capital invested in slaves was a legal investment, so it is the same as saying all Land Title reverts to the Government, and some may be allowed to rent it.

Upholding the Property Rights of Citizens is the First Obligation of Government.

Upholding the Constitution is the Oath all members of government must Swear to before taking office.

The Government took ownership of slaves, and shipped a lot to Liberia. They were not Citizens, and not asked if they wanted to go, they were just put on ships.

The Government did not free slaves and make them Citizens, they called them Contraband, something no one could own, and abandoned them. Nobody got the promised 40 acres and a mule, and a bag of gold.

Nobody got food, clothing, education, or a roof over their head.

It was like the Government now taking all land and housing, and setting people free in the streets.

Separate but equal schools were set up by white southerners. The Northern Government of occupation did nothing to educate Blacks. All employment was provided by White Southerners. They also provided food and clothing.

150 years later most Blacks live in the South. They will tell you, a KKK Cracker can be gotten along with, they will speak plainly, deals can be made. Northern people love the downtrodden, and rob them blind.

This Freedom has not worked according to the promise. Black people are at a disadvantage. Overall they have a lower IQ, but 75% are as smart as white people. 75% are church going workers raising families. They are also culturally Southern. We both think Yankees lie.

Black People of my generation, I am 70, had a Forth Grade Education. They got their children through High School. That generation got their children through College. The current generation is going for Grad School and the Professions. They are rising, so are Native Americans.

The Civil Rights Act, 1963, and giving Citizenship to Native Americans, 1974, was the National Government removing barriers they enacted in the first place. Blacks were not allowed guns during WWII, they could be cooks, load and unload trucks, but not drive them. A cook in Pearl Harbor got in trouble for manning an anti aircraft gun when the gun crew was killed. Negros were not allowed to fight back.

Native Americans were Hostile Combatants, Prisoners of War, for generations. Their status was Ward of the Government. Now Citizens since 1974. The last Indian War, Chief Joseph in 1895.

By those rules, we would still have Japanese in camps. Citizens rounded up and confined, men, women, children, old people.

Yes, it must be that half Black half White South that is imposing Racism on America.


Are you seriously defending the sale and purchase of human beings, just because it was legal at the time? Are you seriously saying that the American government under Lincoln was wrong to take human "property" away from slave masters? I could care less if slavery had been legal at the time; it was an evil institution, and there's no way around that.
You brought up Native Americans and their treatment as hostile nations. Living in the American west, that's a shameful legacy in my corner of the country. Just because it had been legal to treat Native peoples like enemies for living in their own country - which whites decided they wanted - hardly means it was alright. Today, Chief Joseph, who you had mentioned, is considered a hero here in the Northwest, because we whites realize that he and his people had been in the right.
As for the failure of a mule and forty acres to appear - that's more the fault of Andrew Johnson, Lincoln's pro-white southern successor, as he had purposely worked against the success of the Freedman's Bureau during Reconstruction, calling it an effort to "Africanize" the south. In fact, it was no such thing. And yes, in fact the north had provided education and economic advantage to freed blacks; but that had all been done away with by the racist forces of reaction that ensured that blacks remained an oppressed underclass, which had included the use of murder and terror by white terrorist organizations such as the KKK.
And as far as "separate but equal" school systems being something beneficial to southern blacks - are you sh*tting me!! ! I don't know of a single black American today who defends the substandard education provided to their kids in run down schools. As I recall, it was African Americans who had fought tooth and nail to end segregation, beginning in schools.
As for the charge that blacks have lower IQ's than whites - I raise you a Neil DeGrasse Tyson, and he's hardly the only black intellectual. And the contribution of black Americans to the arts - in particular, music - can't be underestimated. Intellectual achievement has more to do with environment than with genes, when whole populations are being discussed.
And sure, I have no doubt that there are southern blacks who reflect the regional prejudice of their white counterparts. But prejudice of any kind, whether it's racial, regional, or whatever, are based on caricatures and stereotypes rather than on actual facts.


Ah! The Spokane Nation! Where the laughter of the children fills the Valley, and joy fills their hearts.

A Great Nation the Spokane, Peace Makers, Horse Breeders, Traders. A people admired by all.

A welcoming people, who traded with the French, the trappers and mountain men, who aided Louis and Clark.

Diplomatic and intelligent, open and tolerant. After 8,000 years we know them well, and how they have protected their children's inheritance. Generation after generation they preserved land, buried their dead there.

How fairs the Spokane Nation, can you hear the laughter of the children?


No better than any other Native american tribe living on a reservation. But as I said before, their demise at the hands of white men is hardly a point of pride today.
Incidentally, nationally known fiction writer and poet, Sherman Alexi, who is something of a local celebrity, is himself a member of the Spokane tribe. We take great pride in him.


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26 Jun 2015, 11:31 am

Dox47 wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Yup. The republican party, as an institution, is not racist.

It's just the favored party of racists.


All that tells you is that racists might generally favor small government policies with a higher likelihood of leaving them alone, though I suspect you were going for more of a guilt by association angle there.


No guilt by association - just mockery



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26 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

Dox47 wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Yup. The republican party, as an institution, is not racist.

It's just the favored party of racists.


All that tells you is that racists might generally favor small government policies with a higher likelihood of leaving them alone, though I suspect you were going for more of a guilt by association angle there.
it's not guilt by association when racism is driving political efforts on the right in an obvious fashion. a recent example of this would be the furor over the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate.



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26 Jun 2015, 3:56 pm

Anybody else think that Republican politicians often have a "macho" ulterior-motive for almost everything?



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26 Jun 2015, 4:18 pm

^^^

Conservatism, is part of innate nature, in general, as nicely illustrated in
this Ted Talk Video. It is as predictable as the nose on a person's face,
per metaphor of GOD gifted nature, as God as Nature, as is for Now,
as
HUMAN NATURE..:)



Some folks are open-minded; Some folks are closed-minded, IN GENERAL.

Polarized gender roles are strict closed-minded ways of social
roles in general; the stuff in between, is openness to NEW experience;
novelty, variety, diversity, in other words, 'the strange'; not something
that conservatives AKA Republicans can deal with easy; OVERALL,

ha! even when
one doesn't write the

standard way
IN 'Queen Victoria's English...

I like novelty.

I ain't scared of different;

Smiles..:)

YES, IT IS 'THE MATRIX';

and I for one choose the
green pill; as i understand
both ways of
life; and realize
the red and blue
pill Folks, one or the other, are
not going AWAY, as different;
so in this way, I am A SUPER COOL
OPEN-MINDED
GREEN-PILL LIBERAL..;)


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26 Jun 2015, 4:32 pm

Is there a transcript of that somewhere? I don't watch dramatic vlogs.



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26 Jun 2015, 5:07 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Is there a transcript of that somewhere? I don't watch dramatic vlogs.


Yes there is; in fact, since you don't watch Ted Talk Videos; you can read a transcript of any Ted talk, just by adding the word "transcript" to the end of the url address..:)

Yeah, I read much faster than watch videos, too; but I enjoy the non-verbal aspect of it as well, with cool humor and all of that; and special effects..:)

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind/transcript?language=en


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26 Jun 2015, 6:07 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Why is it whenever something stands atop the tallest building and screams RACISM!! ! ! at highest volume and it's absolutely clear to anyone who happens to have two brain cells that's what it is but Republicans will downplay it or act like it's not. Why are Republicans so scared of calling something racist when it's so obvious that's what it is. They would get a lot more votes if they had the guts to call it for what it is instead of pretending like it doesn't exist.

Republicans are already downplaying Charleston shooter Dylann Roof's clearly racist ideology:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... n-shooting

I would like to hear from one Republican's mouth, and that includes talking heads like Limbaugh and Hannity, Dylann Roof is a racist and was motivated to kill by his own racist ideology. What is so difficult about that? I would feel so much better about them if they could at least face reality!

Republicans don't call out racists because they often are the racist...



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26 Jun 2015, 6:16 pm

pcuser wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Why is it whenever something stands atop the tallest building and screams RACISM!! ! ! at highest volume and it's absolutely clear to anyone who happens to have two brain cells that's what it is but Republicans will downplay it or act like it's not. Why are Republicans so scared of calling something racist when it's so obvious that's what it is. They would get a lot more votes if they had the guts to call it for what it is instead of pretending like it doesn't exist.

Republicans are already downplaying Charleston shooter Dylann Roof's clearly racist ideology:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... n-shooting

I would like to hear from one Republican's mouth, and that includes talking heads like Limbaugh and Hannity, Dylann Roof is a racist and was motivated to kill by his own racist ideology. What is so difficult about that? I would feel so much better about them if they could at least face reality!

Republicans don't call out racists because they often are the racist...



This is the real reason they never can quite get the minority vote in America.