Police

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Yeah, I agree with wired we don't exactly have Stasi-throwback police in the U.S. just yet, but the Stasi weren't exactly the inquisition...

Does it occur to you that my focus on the issue might have something to do with the nature of the topic of the thread? Lol why do the police have to be killing tens of thousands of people before police corruption is considered a problem? They might not directly kill that many people, but we certainly have tens of thousands of people in prison many of them for non violent drug offenses which in many states carry ridiculous mandatory minimum sentences up to 20 years. While a f***ing child rapist can get as little as 6 years...if you support police corruption then you certainly should not see anything wrong with child rapists getting a slap on the wrist. Its not almost nothing when this crap goes on, not to mention all the tax money that goes into the war on drugs which has been proven to fail and causes more problems than it solves, all that plus abuse of power and brutality on the streets interacting with the public. At least I hardly see that as almost nothing you still can if you want.

Also perhaps the reason there are more murders among the poor, which I assume you mean anyone below the middle class I think that is about where the poverty line is there are more people within that particular group than the middle class and above. I never said all cops are bad, that was another poster...but the ones that are need to be held responsible. Not sure what is so hysterical about that view point, seems reasonable that if they commit crimes they are held responsible. If anything you seem rather hysterical...and I don't think I mentioned starting any movement I will admit I find that idea a bit too dangerous, might vote for someone who wants to address it though. And If this is me making an issue of nothing why are tons of other americans that would agree? And I fail to see how it is fear mongering to express agreement with the view point police should be held responsible for their actions, especially since its their job to enforce laws and catch dangerous criminals. There is corruption plenty of people are aware...and if you want I can post you a link to a video of cops committing multiple crimes in a medical marijuana dispensary I mentioned earlier and the articles about them trying to stop said video from being used as evidence....if that doesn't tell you there is a problem with abuse of power then nothing will I imagine.

It is a corrupt institute....and you keep insisting on the word bad, I've described it in much more articulate, descriptive ways, its more complex than good and bad actually.

I read various positions on the issue and have talked to people of various leanings...there are even a lot of right winger conservatives that distrust and even hate the police did you know that. Good god hard to see your point when its dripping with liberal this, liberal that, ect, then accusing me of making an issue of nothing when you sound like a conspiracy theorist with your drivel about how the evil liberals control 'all' of the media except for Fox News(the only reliable news source , actually just as bad as CNN) and don't allow anything except for leftist views in any of the media aside from Fox News...I express concerns about things like a potential move towards a police state and don't think cops should get away with crimes and abuse and I am the hysteric? this is laughable.

Oh, wasn't aware of that. I thought my bringing it up was the first time you had heard the issues in Arizona with immigrants or in NYC with stop and frisk, when you said you had not heard of that exact campaign.

It isn't a conspiracy theory that journalists skew left lol, I mean, how can you not considering what they learn in college. This isn't a revelation to anyone.

I don't watch Fox News, I don't have cable, and wouldn't watch tv if I did - other then college football.

Well, you maybe are a hysteric..., I certainly would hope that you aren't one... but the position you hold on cops is hysterical. It's no different then the Cops are Racists hysterics. Or the rape-culture hysterics. Or the global warming hysterics. Or the anti-Nuclear Power hysterics. Or the stop Monsanto and Walmart hysterics. Or the GMO hysterics. Or the anti-baby formula hysterics. Or the anti-smoking hysterics. Or the Heterosexual-Aids hysterics. Or the Zero-population-growth hysterics.

All of those hysteria's, and the hysterics who peddle them, fight made-up evils, and even those that aren't made up, that are based on an acorn of truth, are mostly trivial evils. Evils we can live with, considering the greater problems that exist in the world.

Sweet-Leaf, dear, you need some ammunition, therefore, here, have some... police very corrupt some places...

Also, much of America is actually already a Police-State, and here's some evidence...
http://www.yelp.com/biz/lynnwood-city-of-lynnwood
~and~
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/pacific- ... sucks.html
<hugs the Sweet-Leaf at random of course ! ^_^>

Stop & Frisk is probably unconstitutional and statistically appears in most areas where it has been used to be applied with racial bias.

Arizona SB 1070 as one example is at best poor police work and at worst is certainly applied with racial bias. If the objective is something other than harassment, it's pretty pointless because immigration is the exclusive domain of the federal government, and as i understand it most of the people handed to INS/ICE by non-federal agencies are just turned loose.

Not even close. Pacifism is counterrevolutionary. And the day I realize that I am the mere equal of police filth is the day I kill myself out of self hatred.

While I find a some of the views on the police in this thread a little extreme, I think we have way too many police who function as glorified meter maids. I live in a rural, mountain area many miles from the county seat. Every two years, they send a new batch of deputies up here. This basically works out to a two year vacation with pay as you can never seem to get them to do anything but pull the occasional person over on their little drives in the cars we bought them. And by the way, I'm a conservative.

I've been harrassed and even abused on a couple occasions my entire adult and teenage life...fukk the police!

Most of them are power hungry a**holes just itching for an opportunity to use their gun. They are also the enforcers of BS laws passed to for the sole sake of benefiting the wealthy elite corporations and banks. Most of the time the punishment is far more damaging then the crime, especially in victim-less crimes.

Yes but initially you made it sound like a lot more was going on than many journalists having a more liberal view point...I mean right wing opinions are not disallowed by any evil 'liberal' control freak group in the media. Though it seems some things you'd consider 'leftist' really aren't specifically...for instance you think its solely the left who takes issue with police brutality and abuse of power.

If you don't even watch fox news what were you worried about it being 'taken away' for? And once again how is the opinion cops should be held responsible for their behavior hysterical? Is anything other than complete and full trust and love of the police hysterical? because that is what you are making it sound like.

If you think wanting them held responsible and not always getting off easy for crimes is hysterical...then do you think police should be able to do whatever they want consequence free?

So caring about any social or environmental issues is hysterical? I suppose complete apathy is the way to go right? lol and I am not going to comment on the off topic stuff you brought up and derail the thread. Go ahead and think police corruption, abuse of power and brutality is a trivial/made up issue....just don't expect to convince me of it.

I've already experienced and seen enough to know it is a serious issue...and by seen enough I don't mean viewing only heavily leftist biased media...I find videos that are caught of cops misbehaving and not being held responsible to paint a much more clearer picture than any wording in media articles.

As a model of policing I'm in favour of Peelian Principles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_Principles

I think it is very easy for policing to loose track of its duty to the public.

We had that philosophy in our law enforcement (U.S.) prior to WWII. Although there were frequent abuses of the system (by the citizens themselves ), particularly in the South and the West, it is a far more humane system than the impersonal Big Brother system we have now. In earlier times it was called the King's Peace.

No, many on the Right do too, but it's mostly a Leftist-Libertarian cause. Libertarians can be hysterical about the issue, but their numbers are not only relatively small, but tend to be more rational and honest in their critique. In other words, most Libertarians who are critical of police tend not to be police-haters.

And that's right, the media censors the best of conservative thought while allowing meaningful Leftist voices to give their take on important issues.



Because it's bad for the country if only one side's opinions are reflected.

There is nothing hysterical about the opinion that cops should be held responsible for their behavior. The entire Left's preoccupation and fixation on the issue, and their out-sized vilification of ONLY cops(at least for the reasons they cite), however, is hysterical. And all the reasons you give for your unjustified preoccupation with a relatively small issue, is what we call rationalization, since going by your own barometers of concern, you don't apply those critiques to any other group in society who use excessive force, abuse the public trust, or kills innocent civilians.



No. The opposite of not being hysterical IS NOT letting the police do whatever they want, consequence free. The opposite of not being hysterical is to cut the size of the state and state worker salaries, and to lower the funding of police departments. And to end unionization of public employees so that Cops can be held responsible by taxpayers for what they do/did. That's what Government can do to limit police corruption. Then corrupt cops have nothing to hide behind, and are kept on a short leash by the public that pays for them.

What we can do as citizenry to end police corruption is to end the corrupt environments that allows corruption to thrive. Which is a cultural battle, a much harder battle, but one that can be won.



I was only pointing out hysteria's we should be careful of. Those hysteria's that have an acorn of truth at their core, lose credibility when you hate/fear monger about the opponent you're fighting, and paint them as this vile cruel villain, smearing their name with manufactured libels, all in order to beat them politically. And that's not right. You'd have more people fighting on your side if you didn't vilify the objection of your obsession to such outsized proportions, and didn't vilify anyone who disagreed with you as an inherently bad person who wants bad consequences.



I'm not sure if that matters, your obsession and outsized projection of cops being a humongous problem isn't reflected by the reality on the ground. We're a country of 320 million people. There are 1 million cops. They commit only 1,000 or less killings/murders a year

I haven't vilified anyone, just have expressed concerns of how the police operate currently...and I say any corruption and abuse of power is a problem, maybe you disagree. And police should not be committing any murders, isn't that the kind of thing they are supposed to prevent rather than perpetuate?

Yes because in New York City, most violent crimes are committed by non-white minorities and east-European whites. And not even by minorities, but by a tiny tiny fraction of them, within the groups of minorities that were being policed. Stop-and-frisk actually worked, and these minority communities were not only thriving because there was less crime for them to deal with, but active intervention against troubled youth and discouraging an environment permissive of jumping subway turnstile, graffiti, minor theft, as well as more serious crimes such as rape, murder, serious property damage, etc, helped to end the cycle of crime and violence that had kept these minority groups down from getting ahead. And it worked. Crime was not only down amongst these groups, but Manhattan enjoyed it's most crime-free era in its history.

With regard to the Arizona legislation, that's not the point, and certainly weren't the points being made by the larger left prior to even the passing of this bill. The fear-mongering over racist cops targeting immigrants left and right just to capture as many of them as possible, that disgusting narrative, swept the Left like a wildfire.