Israel

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I said:
You call your propaganda "truth" (?) but provide nothing besides your "split-tongue" rehetoric, but what else is to be expected....just the same old "you are guilty because I say so" BS. No proof just interpretations...far from the truth, just as in the following: "So what about in 2008 when Israel started the "war", " FROM Wikipedia: "Israel's stated goal was to stop rocket fire into Israel[45] and weapons smuggling into the Gaza strip.[46][47][48] Israeli forces attacked police stations, military targets including weapons caches and suspected rocket firing teams,[49] as well as political and administrative institutions in the opening assault, striking in the densely populated cities of Gaza, Khan Yunis and Rafah"

And, if anyone didn't already know, there were many rocket attacks against Israel...in the past traces of Sarin gas had been found in their shot-down remnants. Additionally there were many smuggled guns that the Palestinians used in their terror attacks regularly....and after the Israeli measure these terrorist attacks declined to almost zero, as did the rocket attacks. BUT YOU POST NO ANSWER

So why didn't you bother to give this small detail while accusing Israel? Perhaps you call rockets fired at Israel an act of Allah? You're just a typical phony apologist for Palestinians....why do you waste our time with your half lies? I ask the same question others have: Are you anti-Zionist???? Be honest in your answer please; withholding evidence in order to deceive is a lie. Does your Quran teach you this?...Oh! that's right...you're not only allowed to lie you're expected to lie...am I correct? ......BUT I RECEIVED NO ANSWER.

No, I call facts the truth, and you call Israeli propaganda or what they "state" as "truth, as you just did. - "Israel's stated goal was to stop rocket fire into Israel[45] and weapons smuggling into the Gaza strip." You do realise that just because Israel stated something, that doesn't mean it's true, right? Now I will use your same source 'Wikipedia' to show who stared the 2008 "war"- "On 4 November 2008 Israel broke the ceasefire with an attack on Gaza. The Israeli military claimed the target of the raid was a tunnel that they said Hamas was planning to use to capture Israeli soldiers positioned on the border fence 250m away.[94]" Now unless someone in the Israeli ranks is a proven clairvoyant, their excuse is worthless.

Yes, there were "rockets" fired at Israel in response, we won't even mention the 18 month long blockade that had been imposed on Gaza, which included blocking vital medical treatment for cancer and stuff like ya know, food. There were no attacks during the ceasefire which Israel broke.

If you want to talk about real rockets, let's talk about the ones fired into Gaza, blowing up thousands of neighborhoods, schools, hospitals, UN shelters, farms and which left 600,000 tons of rubble behind and killed 1400 people, with 4/5's being civilians. < That's what you're defending. I don't think that Palestinians should fire "rockets" into Israel or kill civilians, one because it's wrong and evil, and two, because it's what Israel wants, to give them an excuse to go into Gaza and "mow the lawn" again. One would have to now be anti-Zionist, knowing thanks to Israeli historians and such that Zionism was always going to be at the expense of the native population. Lol, and it really says it all that you're accusing me of being a Muslim because i'm defending the Palestinians. You do realise that a large number of Palestinians are Christians?

"you're accusing me of being a Muslim"??? Ummmm...who said that? It might be inferred, but how is that an accusation? We're asking you to be honest.....too hard for you? Try.

YOU SAID: "If you want to talk about real rockets...."
What?? Palestinian rockets aren't real? That can, and have, carried Sarin gas???
Since you use Wikipedia I'll reference that 11,000 OF THESE ROCKETS HAVE BEEN FIRED AT Israel SINCE 2001.
11,000....do you think any people (Israelis included) have a right to defend themselves, and in fact not be "overly" friendly to their want-to-be killers.

But I'm sure you will try to make up an excuse for this warlike action and don't believe the Israelis have a "right" to prevent this or the terrorists tunnels into Israel.

Here is a partial list (Wiki) of Palestinian terrorist/coffee shop bombings:
1 1980s 1.1 1989 (1 attack)

2 1990s 2.1 1993 (2 bombings)
2.2 1994 (5 bombings)
2.3 1995 (4 bombings)
2.4 1996 (4 bombings)
2.5 1997 (3 bombings)
2.6 1998 (2 bombings)
2.7 1999 (2 bombings)

3 2000s 3.1 2000 (5 bombings)
3.2 2001 (40 bombings)
3.3 2002 (47 bombings)
3.4 2003 (23 bombings)
3.5 2004 (17 bombings)
3.6 2005 (9 bombings)
3.7 2006 (3 bombings)
3.8 2007 (1 bombing)
3.9 2008 (2 bombings)

Please note the decrease in bombings after Palestinians were no longer allowed to freely import material for their bombs and bomb vests. Only a fool would allow this to happen again, and the Israelis are no fools.
Terrorist actions must NOT be condoned...YET you insist on trying. Ignoring the subject merely makes you, and your premises look false. "Those who are unable to remember the past are doomed to repeat it." You seem more than happy to ignore the past, or twist it, as it suits you.

90% of what you "push" is your personal interpretation and conjecture (please note I avoided saying "party line"). And you constantly ignore any questions or statements you find uncomfortable or inconvenient....

Until you feel you can debate rationally and fairly (???) I won't waste my time replying to the same old hack job....the same as we've seen over-and-over-and-over on this forum. Talk methods to peace, instead of trying to stir up old hatreds) then I'll be pleased to talk with you.

ZenDen.
Good Points

I would demand that you prove your outrageous claims, but I know you cannot. You're out of ideas. Norman Finkelstein is a Jew and his parents were Nazi Holocaust survivors.

And also the Jewish only roads in illegally occupied territories. The Zionist movement and a lot of early Zionist leaders weren't religious. Religion is just used by these maniacs to get the religious Jews on their side, though groups of Orthodox Jews have spoken strongly against Israel.

ZenDen-

I'm not a Muslim, and the fact that you assumed I was, says a lot.

How many people have those "rockets" killed? Israel are not "defending" themselves!! That's the whole point. Israel has started every single "war", apart from the Yom Kippur, which they goaded Egypt in to. Do only Israel have the right to "defend themselves"? When they go in and are told to destroy everything in site to "punish, humiliate and terrorize" the Palestinians, do the Palestinians not have the right to respond? If some psychotic army blew up your village, killing all of your family, would you be tempted to respond? During the 2008/9 massacre, Israel dropped 1,000 tons of explosives into Gaza. If Israel didn't want rockets fired into the country, then it wouldn't/shouldn't have broken the ceasefire. So please answer, did the Palestinians have the right to respond to Israel's act of war?

"But I'm sure you will try to make up an excuse for this warlike action and don't believe the Israelis have a "right" to prevent this or the terrorists tunnels into Israel."

If you don't want tunnels, then don't build a wall round the place, trapping them and going in every few years to "mow the lawn". It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Also, in 2014, Egypt closed the "terror tunnels", by simply filling them in. They didn't blow up the whole of Gaza to do it.

YOU SAID: ZenDen-

I'm not a Muslim, and the fact that you assumed I was, says a lot. You sound exactly like many Muslim apologists we've seen on this forum. If it walks like a duck......etc. Makes perfect sense to ask...perhaps you have another reason for your similarities?

How many people have those "rockets" killed? Israel are not "defending" themselves!! So the 11,000 rockets..that's not 11 rockets or 110..or 1100...but 11,000 were just for 4th of July celebrations? You condone this slimy feat?

That's the whole point. Israel has started every single "war", apart from the Yom Kippur, which they goaded Egypt in to. Do only Israel have the right to "defend themselves"? When they go in and are told to destroy everything in site to "punish, humiliate and terrorize" the Palestinians, do the Palestinians not have the right to respond? If some psychotic army blew up your village, killing all of your family, would you be tempted to respond? During the 2008/9 massacre, Israel dropped 1,000 tons of explosives into Gaza. If Israel didn't want rockets fired into the country, then it wouldn't/shouldn't have broken the ceasefire. So please answer, did the Palestinians have the right to respond to Israel's act of war?As I said, all you provide is false interpretation and innuendos.

"But I'm sure you will try to make up an excuse for this warlike action and don't believe the Israelis have a "right" to prevent this or the terrorists tunnels into Israel."

If you don't want tunnels, then don't build a wall round the place, trapping them and going in every few years to "mow the lawn". It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Also, in 2014, Egypt closed the "terror tunnels", by simply filling them in. They didn't blow up the whole of Gaza to do it.

So you justify the tunnels AND the terrorist acts, because there's a wall? If there wasn't a wall you'd have those murderous Palestinians bombing every coffee shop and school (the brave soldiers of Islam especially like schools) within a week.

And, of course, you managed to completely avoid mentioning the coffee shop slaughters directly, as I expected you would. And you base every aggression on something the Israelis did in the past..but never mention how many times the Palestinians broke the truce. This shows how phony and cheap your argument is.

As I said, lies and half lies and obvious apologist propaganda will not be answered. I gave you a chance to respond fully and honestly but you only submit propaganda and hatred as a valid reason for the Muslim's killings of innocent people...next you'll say the 9/11 murders were justified in your eyes for the same murderous reasons. Please don't waste my time further.

And you sound like every US/Israeli apologist. And where have I said anything about Muslims? As I said, there are large number of Palestinian Christians.

You're not responding to my points at all, and are defending mass murder by the Israelis. Chemical weapons poured over schools and hospitals, children shot point blank in the head. It goes on. I have already said that I am strongly against killing any civilians. Again, do the Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from illegal blockades and having their cities blown to dust by Israel?

"So you justify the tunnels AND the terrorist acts, because there's a wall? If there wasn't a wall you'd have those murderous Palestinians bombing every coffee shop and school (the brave soldiers of Islam especially like schools) within a week." I justify the tunnels as long as there's an illegal wall, I never said I justified terrorist acts. It's not just a "Wall", it's a prison. Even die hard Zionist David Cameron called Gaza a prison. How odd that Israel's wall in the West bank swallowed up tens of thousands of Palestinians (potential terrorists" into the Israeli side of the wall, and strangely enough, it swallowed up vitals resources, especially water. The walls have nothing to do with "security". Again, ceasefires are arranged, then the Israelis break them. The are continuously goading them and harassing them on a daily basis. I've already condemned terrorist attacks, though you support terrorist attacks by Israel and the US.

Odd, does that mean that Israeli soldiers are "brave" when they blow up schools and kindergartens? Or blow up children playing football on a beach? Again, i've already condemned terrorist attacks, where as you have supported those done by Israel. Please give a source or at least some examples where the Palestinians broke ceasefires?

You cannot answer simple questions. You're shying away from the facts and trying to make it personal.

Norman Finkelstein's works and actioins speaks for itself. People who are curious can look it up because the list is so long it will take 20 postings. You would love to have every Jew in Israel under a mushroom cloud.

http://archive.adl.org/adl_opinions/hol ... ndard.html
http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1676.htm

This person...from Palestine as JP would now have us believe....is as uneducated as they come. He can only spout the PLO line over-and-over...not a bit of creativity, peacefulness or understanding I can discern.

He will continue to pass along the killer Muslim's/terrorist's agenda, even though there are peaceful Muslims (per D. Trump) to emulate...he instead chooses to espouse death and killing, excused, by him, for ancient (and recent) imaginary wrongs, the exact same line terrorists use.

Sounds like he's been "radicalized" doesn't it?

Its a waste of time with John Powell. JohnPowell is an antisemite.

Fundamentalism then...I agree that followers of judaism have been victimised for centuries. However the state of Israel is an exercise in fundamentalist fantasies trying to recreate a lost empire of Solomon...I would prefer Europe just give up antisemitism and let jewish people come back and live in Europe...Give Palestine back...

Yes this aspect is certainly fanatic...I've seen ultraorthodox types in hats behaving like crazy islamic mullahs...I can;t imagine Abraham or Moses walking around in a black suite and hat

The ADL is your source, with the crook Foxman giving his personal opinion? And then some site that cannot even spell "Hezbollah" correctly. Tragic.

It sounds like you've been brainwashed. You are spouting Israeli propaganda, which is the corporate media's line. I am repeating facts from human rights organisations (including Israeli ones), Israeli Jew historians and writers, Jewish historians and professors and from UN fact finding missions, as well as World Court and Security Council findings/resolutions and votes.

I haven't defended any terrorist attacks or killing of innocent civilians, where as you have defended chemical weapons that have been poured over schools, schools, hospitals and UN shelters that have been blown up and innocent children being blown up, intentionally. And i'm the radical one??

Also, i'm not sure why you're defending Israel when they cause the US to be hated around the world, because of the $10 million a day they give to them out of your taxes, so they can spend it on killing civilians. Not to mention Israel's attack on a US ship in 1967.

The atheists are no better though.