I am not asking you, I am f*****g telling you! Fantasy based

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I had a religions class in college where the teacher brought in ministers, clerics, etc from different faiths to answer questions about their religion. I'm not gonna name sect, but one of the Christian ministers, when asked about the environment and his religion's view towards it said, and I quote: "God wants us to use the Earth until it's gone. We can't have the rapture until God's creation is prepared."

I have heard this sentiment expressed before by a Christian couple. He also belonged to the Masons. They said that God put animals here for us to use for our benefit. I find this view to be like a cultural narcissism.

Yeah I wasn't overly surprised when I heard it said, I figured they had to believe something like that since according to their bible God made Eden for Adam and Eve to basically abuse...aside from God's one special f*****g apple of course, that s**t is tasty and thus off limits.

edit: I'm not a fan of apples, so it makes me question how good of gardener God actually is if his prime crop makes me want to gag.

I see another option here. You claim the moral code is 'contrary to our sole purpose' of survival. The moral code exists. If we assume no thestic origin, we are left with the fact this moral code occurs 'naturally'. From that, I question the notion of us having such a 'sole purpose'. I consider notions of that 'sole purpose' to be, to go back to what I said earlier, a narrative rather than a fact.

So - an entirely natural (non-theistic) origin, and the existence of a common (indeed universal) moral sense. These are our starting points. From there, there may be much theorising as to quite how it came to be, but that it is still persists, and should be accepted.

I think there is a moral sense to certain matters, a moral aspect. My guess is it arose from our being self-conscious, self-aware beings, capable of empathy and understanding of our own and others' ability to choose what we/they do. Humans become aware of the effects of our actions. I think this 'moral sense' was taken and abstracted and reified and projected into/onto God (or 'nature', etc), that God acts as an originator, guarantor and arbitrator of these matters, of an 'objective' morality. So that, if we do away with God, we assume morality has to go to.

Only, it doesn't. That's an assumption that follows from a series of assumptions, a way of looking at things that is not necessarily so.

My view of humans is that we are inherently conflicted and unfinished as naturally endowed at birth, and that this only ever complicates as we move through (and take in) culture. I do not think we are slick, sleek, monistic, single-purpose creatures. Rather, we are as we find ourselves - capable of variety and change and invention.

I assume that you're joking. Its impossible for any human being to dislike apples!

But I digress.

If you actually read the scripture you will see that Genesis never actually mentions "apples".

Its described as a "fruit". The "fruit" of the tree of knowledge.

Apples dont do well in the Middle East. So the "fruit" more likely a fig, or a grape, or a pomegranite. But apples do thrive in northern Europe, and in the eastern USA. So in the last few centuries the forbidden fruit has been imagined as being an apple in Western countries.

You left out the mother lode for apples--Washington State!! !

Lol, not joking, not a fan of apples. Thank you for reminding me on the "fruit" I always forget the apple was a later invention to the story and I agree I think the fruit was most likely actually a fig, since figs were the first domesticated fruit we know about.

LOL....I just can't conceive of a fig as being something that would tempt Eve so much that she ate the fig, despite knowing that it would lead to eternal damnation.

I'm actually thinking the fruit might have been an orange. Oranges grow well in Mediterranean-type climates.

Well, as I said, it was the first domesticated food as far as we know, if there's only figs to eat I'm sure those figs would be pretty damn tempting on an empty stomach.

According to what I've read the reason for that was to more or less soften the blow...they figured if people could keep some of their traditions they wouldn't fight so hard against converting and what not. As a result pagan roots in holidays still exist but they did make a point to ensure all the holidays are about celebrating god or jesus, rather than things like the harvest, winter and summer solstices, fertility and things like that which is why they were initially celebrated.

IDK I know at least the dried figs can be quite hard to stop eating due to the delicious.

LOL...you know better than I!

Figs, to me, are an acquired taste.

I'll have to do research to find out if the climate in Mesopotamia and the Levant, circa 4,000 BC, was more moist than it is today.

I was reading a book a while back that had to do with some Christian history and it discussed that sort of sentiment and view in Christianity. I think it has something to do with beliefs that the 'earthly' things are sinful and the god of heaven is pure...thus too much respect for the earth rather than exploitation of its resources would take away from purity. I am paraphrasing rather terribly since it went into a lot more detail and complexity but it was a long time ago when I read that.

There is that, also like dogs...humans are more or less pack animals, meaning we survive best in some kind of a group. Which requires some amount of cooperation and a code of conduct of some kind....thus morals.

Well, like I said this was a specific Christian denomination, just because one part of Christianity believes a certain way doesn't mean they all will. I'm not surprised there are earth friendly Christians either tbh. It's like everything else, you meet one Christian, well, you met one Christian not all of em.

edit: editing out extra words and stuff.

For sure. The elements of Christmas that I enjoy are the sharing of food and the display of lights. The present buying is more of a celebration of commerce. And Jesus to me is a symbolic hero of Christian values, which for the most part are practical...."judge not lest you be judged," etc. The power and wealth of the Catholics is a little distressing. And of course there were the Crusades, which I think are a example of power disguised as morality.