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CageAquarium
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05 May 2007, 7:17 am

alex wrote:
CageAquarium wrote:
I don't consider it brainwashing by any active malign entity so much as a negative side affect of freedom. If more people know about the winner of American Idol than the history of their own country or where Afghanistan is then that is their right to do so, whether we like it or not (and for the record I really don't, considering my love of world history).


most of those people are south/west of USA's megalopolis, though...


I dunno, I have lived all over the country and I have found that, while it is certainly worse in the mid and far west there is definitely a growing disinterest in the history of the world and where we came from. I think it really should be treated as a much more important subject of study, at least in the United States. Colleges require a ton of math, much of it not very useful unless you have some special interest in engineering or physics, but they (or the one I went to) required only 2 years of history when, in my opinion, we would be alot better off if those numbers were reversed.



Awesomelyglorious
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05 May 2007, 10:34 am

CageAquarium wrote:
I dunno, I have lived all over the country and I have found that, while it is certainly worse in the mid and far west there is definitely a growing disinterest in the history of the world and where we came from. I think it really should be treated as a much more important subject of study, at least in the United States. Colleges require a ton of math, much of it not very useful unless you have some special interest in engineering or physics, but they (or the one I went to) required only 2 years of history when, in my opinion, we would be alot better off if those numbers were reversed.

I dunno, I consider math useful for most subjects. The only subject that math is useless for is the humanities. Most social sciences require some math of some form, business requires math, and a few of the non-engineering sciences require a little math. Although historical knowledge would be nice, it is not very useful outside of the field of history though(well, except for possibly poli sci). This is not to denounce history, I am reading a book on history right now(ok, it is American economic history), however, I think that a stronger case could be made for the necessity of math or for a greater freedom to pursue one's educational interests after all, I will be honest, I do not consider myself undereducated but I would not want to be forced to take more history classes as I used to be a person aiming at engineering and would hate extra, unnecessary burden. Perhaps the common person might be helped a little with additional education of this type, however, the uncommon person is the one that we should seek to aid.



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08 May 2007, 4:05 pm

Are you kidding me? Europe is much more close minded and ignorant than America. In fact, for Europeans to even accuse us of ignorance proves it. First they insult us, then they leech off our entertainment like unoriginal little cockroaches.. And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've lived in Europe for a while. Then you have the idiots who enjoy exagerating the depth of the problem and run around screaming, "WHAT IF BIG BAD AMERICA NUKES US NEXT, OMIGOD IM SCARED, THEY'RE SO UNPREDICTABLE AND EVIL." It's just jealousy, that's it. And it's pathetic.


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08 May 2007, 4:34 pm

:lol:
someone dropped their toys.



kt-64
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08 May 2007, 5:17 pm

Ramsus wrote:
Are you kidding me? Europe is much more close minded and ignorant than America. In fact, for Europeans to even accuse us of ignorance proves it. First they insult us, then they leech off our entertainment like unoriginal little cockroaches.. And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've lived in Europe for a while. Then you have the idiots who enjoy exagerating the depth of the problem and run around screaming, "WHAT IF BIG BAD AMERICA NUKES US NEXT, OMIGOD IM SCARED, THEY'RE SO UNPREDICTABLE AND EVIL." It's just jealousy, that's it. And it's pathetic.


You seem abit too hawkish for an aspie/apergian. I dislike EU europeans AND americans.



techstepgenr8tion
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08 May 2007, 5:40 pm

Ramsus wrote:
Are you kidding me? Europe is much more close minded and ignorant than America. In fact, for Europeans to even accuse us of ignorance proves it. First they insult us, then they leech off our entertainment like unoriginal little cockroaches.. And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, I've lived in Europe for a while. Then you have the idiots who enjoy exagerating the depth of the problem and run around screaming, "WHAT IF BIG BAD AMERICA NUKES US NEXT, OMIGOD IM SCARED, THEY'RE SO UNPREDICTABLE AND EVIL." It's just jealousy, that's it. And it's pathetic.


Agreed, the envy runs pretty thick and to an extent that's an integral part of why the UN has caused us so many headaches. For a while as I heard Chiraq wanted to try and rally a group of European nations against us just so that Europe could have an equal political counterbalance to us. What bothers me is not that they would have wanted equal voice but they'd pretty much be there to say the exact opposite of whatever we wanted - whether that was doing something that was wrong or whether that was preventing us from stopping some huge genocide or a country harboring some huge bomb maker who'd blast them to bits first and come after us second. This is what I hate about politics, rather than going for whatever makes sense or needs to be done you have people necessarily clinging to arbitrary ideologies that aren't in touch with reality because if one side's for this then the other side necessarily has to be against it and if the other side is for one thing then the other side has to arbitrarily pick beef with that - just to keep a group image.

While its true that not too many people would mistake me for a liberal on foreign policy I think the reason the right in our country is doing so well is that the left is so outlandish in the claims they make that it keeps the right on better behavior, acting more like proper adults, but they're causing that polarity at the expense of their own party and eventually if you do that too long you make yourself irrelevant. The left in our country also has no plan - aside from wanting to move toward socialism which Europe even seems to be cringing at the economic repercussions of itself (for as much anti-conservative hate people seem to spout over there its funny to see that the French people did elect a conservative - seems like the other way wasn't getting them where they wanted to go as a country and they realized that).

That I think the whole world will come around bit by bit on the war on terror as well, especially when you have something like the filmmaker in the Netherlands getting a knife through his chest and a note for saying something that incensed some people. The bombings in Algeria and Morocco also go to show for everyone who wanted to pretend like Al Qaeda is strictly in Afghanistan, Tanzania, and Somalia. Some people want to just hide from the world and live easy in the short term until it comes for em with machettes, other people are horrified and angered by the kinds of a***holes who get taken into a country, are given all kinds of things, and preach about overthrowing the country at church - luckily if someone preaches about overthrowing the U.S. in church they go to jail, we aren't as lenient as some places and we're seeing we're a lot better off for it. Its really good that France at least is waking up because I was really worried that in another 20 or 30 years they could have been another Lebanon.



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08 May 2007, 5:41 pm

kt-64 wrote:
You seem abit too hawkish for an aspie/apergian. I dislike EU europeans AND americans.

I don't think that you can define who an aspie is with such ease. I would prefer to base people on the merits of their arguments though, however, that could be merely something I argue to cover my own ass because I fit in the latter category of people you dislike.



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08 May 2007, 5:44 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Ahh yes, to the point... the US media needs to be forced to educate people. Rupert Murdoch has such a dominion over media as well. News companies should be bound to the truth and penalised for bias. It's news, not entertainment!! !! !! !! !




Kinda like how venezuela is forcing the tv news outlets to preach only the truth according to hugo chavez?


No thanks.


Government being involved in anything means a waste of money and them getting it almost entirely WRONG.


That is a generalization. It is when corrupt, incompetent governments screw up that they get it wrong. Don't forget that the US public voted for Bush. The answer is forcing political candidates, especially those standing for high office, to take tests and be bound to their election principles except in dire circumstances. Old Labour didn't screw up the NHS. Governments can get things right, if they have the correct ideas and commitment. People should not be allowed to stake a career on LIES and false promises!! !! !! !!

The world would be a much better place without such political mediocrity. Oh and I'm so glad that the Libertarian party will never get into office. Anarchism fails, and Libertarianism itself sews the seeds of societal breakdown. You just watch the Oligarchy and Monopolies erode workers' rights and create a new Feudalism. That of corporations buying out the government, and power determined by wealth. Ultra-Capitalism is Orwellian dystopia, and Libertarians' faith in liberty and skeleton government is only backed up by their wealth. Would you like to be poor in a Libertarian society? How would you like that?
How would you like seeing a loved one die an otherwise avoidable death in a developed country? Class facism, more than ever in such a society. It still exists to a smaller extent today, but Libertarianism should be exposed for what it is... class nazism. It must be stopped at all costs, and unbreakable laws set to safeguard rights that all rightful, law abiding citizens should have.


I apologize for flaming Libertarianism, but I despise it so.


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08 May 2007, 5:52 pm

America are the terrorists of the world.
you are brainwashed to think otherwise.
it is so sad :(

dont get me wrong, american people i have nothing against. just your leader :lol: he is a little monkey isnt he. but then again look at the other leaders, they are not much better. Just different weaponry.



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08 May 2007, 5:54 pm

Anubis wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Ahh yes, to the point... the US media needs to be forced to educate people. Rupert Murdoch has such a dominion over media as well. News companies should be bound to the truth and penalised for bias. It's news, not entertainment!! !! !! !! !




Kinda like how venezuela is forcing the tv news outlets to preach only the truth according to hugo chavez?


No thanks.


Government being involved in anything means a waste of money and them getting it almost entirely WRONG.


That is a generalization. It is when corrupt, incompetent governments screw up that they get it wrong. Don't forget that the US public voted for Bush. The answer is forcing political candidates, especially those standing for high office, to take tests and be bound to their election principles except in dire circumstances. Old Labour didn't screw up the NHS. Governments can get things right, if they have the correct ideas and commitment. People should not be allowed to stake a career on LIES and false promises!! !! !! !!

The world would be a much better place without such political mediocrity. Oh and I'm so glad that the Libertarian party will never get into office. Anarchism fails, and Libertarianism itself sews the seeds of societal breakdown. You just watch the Oligarchy and Monopolies erode workers' rights and create a new Feudalism. That of corporations buying out the government, and power determined by wealth. Ultra-Capitalism is Orwellian dystopia, and Libertarians' faith in liberty and skeleton government is only backed up by their wealth. Would you like to be poor in a Libertarian society? How would you like that?
How would you like seeing a loved one die an otherwise avoidable death in a developed country? Class facism, more than ever in such a society. It still exists to a smaller extent today, but Libertarianism should be exposed for what it is... class nazism. It must be stopped at all costs, and unbreakable laws set to safeguard rights that all rightful, law abiding citizens should have.


I apologize for flaming Libertarianism, but I despise it so.



:roll:


my point proven: fascist comes from a demand from the people....not from government taking over. the people are the ones who hold the power. but then again, most people want to be enslaved...why else would they willingly submit themselves to religion, to ideas of more security and less liberty being better....submitting to that they can never change anything and rather accepting the status quo......i mean that's how we've gotten to this point...people are little b*****s who want to be enslaved. people are scared of liberty...it's dangerous...they might have to think for themselves. most people don't wanna do that.

just look at the various rogues gallery of people saying that the country is a christian country. that's garbage that has been accepted on a massive scale...people want themselves to be enslaved. it'll give them the security of never having to worry about their position in life...what could be...or what dangers may lie ahead.



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08 May 2007, 5:56 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I don't think that you can define who an aspie is with such ease. I would prefer to base people on the merits of their arguments though, however, that could be merely something I do to cover my own ass because I fit in the latter category of people you dislike.


Sadly I think the reason the bulk of aspies go toward the left isn't because it makes more sense but because its the most special-interest friendly side. One guy even mentioned to me in these specific words "Isn't voting for the right and having a disability being like a turkey voting for thanksgiving?" - that line of logic scares me because when someone's thinking like that its not even based on the realities of what needs to be done, its really all about them (nothing wrong with that when there aren't all kinds of issues going on in this world that are far more important than them or their momentary financial comfort). As a kid I had no understanding of how people could talk about communism or socialism like they worked, no idea how people could look at the US like we're more evil than despots when we're even far more lenient than many of the countries criticizing us and are the only people who seem to care so much what the world thinks of us but the more I've seen that end of corruption and what's been mentioned before, envy (we are human beings, we're jealous as hell of the person or group who has more prestige - take Hitler for instance), and the downside of religion and people just turning atheist in the last 50 or 60 years is that while the have no god in their lives (which is supposed to be the more rational choice) they have no wisdom or sense of what we are in that case and it lends itself to them still having real dreamy ideologies that when you test them under real world circumstances their ideas fall apart. Conservatives might seem mean and nasty to some but the difference is that while some might be fundamentalist weirdos most seem to understand the darker edge of human nature much better than liberals - thus they're taking actions on things because they have to whereas liberals, not seeing that, can't put a conservative's actions in any other context than that they're war mongering and evil.

Sadly too many human beings are basic and war mongering and when you get too buddhist and spiritually high-fallutin' you become too weak to defend yourselves - evolutionarily that's failure as a species, the stronger species (usually the less evolved and more barbaric) takes over, wipes out you and yours, and its a surprising thing to see than many atheists can't see it that way to save their lives. When people get all bent out of shape because they think if the one side doesn't fight then the other won't either - its heartbreaking but you have to just realize their kids (at whatever age), wouldn't understand, and what has to be done still has to be done if you want to protect your freedom to be you and their freedom to hate you and think you're the root of all evil.



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08 May 2007, 6:25 pm

Ramsus wrote:
they leech off our entertainment like unoriginal little cockroaches..


American entertainment is original? You're f*****g kidding me, right? Do you not own a TV or something? American TV shows are all copies of previous shows, or parodies of those shows in attempts to appear intelligent. American movies are all either sequels, prequels, remakes, or unoriginal animated things. The entertainment here is s**t.



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08 May 2007, 6:41 pm

I am not held to public belief or religion, much to your misunderstanding. I am a very deep thinker, and I can comprehend a great many things.

And purposeful government thinks better than the general population. People in general, and as a whole, are stupid, and need intelligent, benevolent, trained, open minded, but wise leaders to lead the human race. Yet human stupidity normally wins, and pathetic mediocrity prevails. I am for individuality, very much for it, but against stupidity and sheer greed. Banes of humanity, that hold it back, which shape the way people think in so many different ways, but are essential to the current capitalist system. Humans exploiting each others' flaws, in both beneficial and parasitic ways. Generally a government should regulate capitalism as such, draw the line as to what is and what is not acceptable, and save humanity from disaster. A benevolent government is unlikely, due to the sheer stupidity of humanity. Idiots such as Blair should be shot, they are comedians, not leaders.

I can say myself that I am human and have flaws.


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08 May 2007, 6:46 pm

Todd489 wrote:
Ramsus wrote:
they leech off our entertainment like unoriginal little cockroaches..


American entertainment is original? You're f***ing kidding me, right? Do you not own a TV or something? American TV shows are all copies of previous shows, or parodies of those shows in attempts to appear intelligent. American movies are all either sequels, prequels, remakes, or unoriginal animated things. The entertainment here is sh**.


yeah, well it's the same over here dude.
there is some good stuff we get: Curb for example.
The movie scene has been terrible for a while. I blame LOTR and Star Wars. Now that's out of the system it may start bucking up. I dunno though. :?



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08 May 2007, 6:54 pm

U.S. movies are getting a little better, I think. They are much slower to adjust to the market then most entities because of egos of their performers, directors, ect...

ADDENDUM: Admittedly, perhaps I am not really a fan of what "the market" wants.



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08 May 2007, 9:08 pm

jimservo wrote:
U.S. movies are getting a little better, I think. They are much slower to adjust to the market then most entities because of egos of their performers, directors, ect...

ADDENDUM: Admittedly, perhaps I am not really a fan of what "the market" wants.


I challenge that statement. I got dragged to a movie recently and saw 5 previews. 4 were sequels. 1 was one of those animated pixar dealies that kids drag their parents to. I fail to see how that's "better."