Transgender Olympians: The end of female sport?

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You've quoted three questions yet ignored them in favour of answering one of your own invention. As to whether 10+ years spent lifting weights as a male before transitioning is equivalent to steroid doping, that's a moral question that's open to debate, regardless of either your objections or your apparent inability to understand the difference between a question and a claim.



No, it's the "you're dehumanising people by turning them into nothing more than labels" argument. You can tell because those are the words I used as opposed to the ones contained in your strawman. You can also tell because, unlike yourself, I don't speak about demographic groups as if they were monolithic.

If you're going to go to the effort of quoting me, I don't believe it's too much to ask that you exert an equally insignificant amount of effort and read the text you've quoted.

AKA the reason most sports are separated by biological sex rather than by the Progressive definition of "gender" wherein one may change one's sexual identity as readily as putting a hat upon one's head.

I'd claim to be surprised that battalions of feminists aren't descending upon this thread and arguing in favour of biologically female athletes, but I appreciate that those who have adopted the Top Trumps take on intersectionality have painted themselves into a corner.

I'll concede that your snark is adorable, but you still can't make an allegation of hate against people in a room, and when challenged point to someone who entered after the allegation was made as proof of the allegations validity, and somehow retroactively smearing everyone. Especially since the claim was frivolous in the first place.

Consider your attempt to not have to answer for your shaming tactics failed.

That doesn't count, because that person posted AFTER you made your original comment----and, besides, who are YOU to say a thread should be locked; you've only been here, about a minute, and the person you were talking about, has been here, for THREE years. GOOD manners would be to NOT be putting-down our members, right-off-the-bat.

I think there was a lot of hate that you weren't seeing. None of it was very explicit, but it was pretty obvious where the discussion was headed. And I know, what's obvious to some people isn't always obvious to others

You keep talking about reg dates like they actually mean something? Cut the crap, I've been here about as long as you have. Long enough to know that if you don't like a user, you should just block her and move on with your life instead of fussing like a child every time she posts.

I've read through the entire thread and it was completely bereft of anything resembling "hate" until the point at which Drake was falsely accused of expressing "transphobic" opinions. If people can't tolerate opinions that are not their own they should perhaps look inward rather than lashing out indiscriminately.



Whilst I personally agree with the logic, it cannot be overlooked that this is a community and that time served is directly related to the amount of interaction other users have had with you. It's natural that any of us might have an in-group bias when faced with unwarranted hostility from a relative newcomer. So yes, it means something to some people, however little relevance it might have to you (or indeed me).



Aside from the obvious point that how you choose to deal with someone you don't like is by no means the universally best path, what gives you the impression Campin_Cat dislikes MushroomPrincess? Her criticism was based on the content of a post and the opinions expressed therein.

Falsely?

He said he has "contempt" for trans athletes, and compared them to thieves stealing things that aren't theirs. If you don't think that's hate, then what do you think hate looks like?

Yes, falsely.



Actually what he said was:



Aside from the fact that's an explicit reference to those specific athletes that are being discussed, it's also clear hyperbole.



That was how he specifically described Laurel Hubbard:



In the context of Drake's position, that's an entirely reasonable (if again hyperbolic) analogy. His motivation is clearly based in what he considers to be just and fair, as opposed to being grounded in a dislike of people who alter their bodies to present as the opposite sex.



Hate manifests in many ways. For example, it might fuel someone's desire to cast strangers on the internet as "transphobic" and support the charge using misrepresentation (such as pretending they made a general statement when they were being very specific). Drake is not your enemy, yet you seem intent on making one of him. That might certainly be considered to be animosity, if not outright hatefulness.

In order to demonstrate "hate" one must provide either an implication or an overt expression of such. Drake has made no statement suggesting he has a hatred for trans people, but he plainly has a low threshold of tolerance for what he perceives to be cheating or unfair. Anything notions of "hate" you got from his post can only be considered to be either unsubstantiated inference or projection.

Keep moving those goalposts adn.

If you're intent on trolling you could at least put some effort into it.

Just want make sure the person who is trying to have a rational discussion with you knows what they are in for.

I dont care about you at all.

Including lame attempts at concern-trolling.



The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I also thought use of the word "contempt" stood in stark contrast to the tone of the previous discussion, which was, I felt, lacking in a clear definition and understanding of transgender. Gender identity and transgender are, unfortunately, often used without complexity. The focus on professional level athletes is, perhaps, not unusual but not pertinent to the participation of transgender athletes in athletic competition, since they have done so for quite a while without detriment to binary competitive sports. The question posed "Transgender Olympians: The End of Female Sport?" is based on a misconception of what constitutes an Olympic transgender athlete in the first place. The Paralympics has faced a very similar issue when defining the degree of disability, the category an athlete should compete in, and if so is the categorization fair to all participating athletes in said category? How does this apply to the recent discussions on transgender athletes? In both cases the discussion is about fairness, sportsmanship, and the competitiveness of athletics. For those who feel that neither of these prerequisites can be fulfilled in application to transgender athletes are most likely unfamiliar with the premise that a presumed advantage cannot determine the sanction. The advantage has to be quantifiable, which, as of yet, it is not. In all likelihood it will never be. Just keep in mind: The presumed advantage has an ignominious history in competitive sports with asinine explications as to the cause of the "singled out" advantage (e.g. female race car drivers etc, etc, etc).

From a physics perspective, it seems like the male physique would find it easier to distribute the weight
(broader shoulders, longer arms), which would make it easier to lift overheard.

8

Yes, it is amazing what years of steroid abuse can achieve. I wonder if that's why we also don't allow that in athletic competitions.

Also, even a woman looking like that is going to be weaker than a man of equal or even smaller size due to lower muscle density and aspects such as shoulder physiology and thigh angle.