One way to push the U.S. toward metric right now
Sounds like a you problem. If everyone you know uses Fahrenheit and you choose not to that's your fault not theirs. You can't force people to be like you that's wrong.
Also you know you can set it up to always show in Celsius so you're whole extra hassle is again your fault.
Look I'm a picky eater, When I go places and find the food not to my liking I don't blame the other people eating. It sucks yeah and I have to go through the hassle of telling them to take a lot of stuff off, but reality is most people like all that stuff on their food. What right would I have to try to force everyone to eat like me. Same goes for those very few of you who want to use metric in America.
So this is a social and national issue, not an individual one, right?
It seems, to you, it's an individual problem with the present system, which creates an individual need.
Although the metric system was promoted very heavily in the '70s, it was rejected. And as I mentioned a little earlier it was also promoted heavily in grade schools in the '50s as well...and people rejected it then as well.
Although many organizations promote the metric system they ignore the fact that people use the metric system everyday for medicine. For uses that people, in general, decide are better handled by the present system it will remain. Eventually I believe the metric system will supplant the present system but across, perhaps, another 50 years.
Divide one foot (12 inches) into 1/3rds. Easy: The answer is 4 inches; exactly.
Divide 1 meter into 1/3rds????
I came up with my examples of not having a choice because I wanted to show the whole promise of "voluntary" conversion was a sham. It's a way for politicians to make it look like they are moving toward metric conversion without actually doing so.
Generally, what units we use are controlled by the national government. The same is true of the United States, as the Framers granted Congress the power to "fix the Standard of Weights and Measures" (U.S. Const. Article I Section 8 ). To a large extent, any conversion or not is going to depend on what Congress does.
The very first proposal for metrication, or a move to a metric-like system, actually came in the 1790s with Thomas Jefferson's proposal.
In my view, we should simply get it over and done with. History has shown that when this happens, the issue dies, and the country remains metric. The use of metric units becomes normalized and the discussion ends. I think it's really harmful to this country that the lack of a spine by many politicians has dragged this issue out resulting in us using a confusing mess of units and the problems I mentioned above, which can have drastic consequences. Instead, politicians hide behind the "voluntary" rhetoric. At least I showed you guys how the "voluntary" rhetoric is full of crap. We need to stop hiding behind it.
As for your 1/3's example, the conversion factors of the measurement system should match the radix of the numbers we use to count. This allows conversion to happen by moving the decimal point, as the radix of our number system is 10.
As for need, we as a nation need to metricate. It may be hard at first, but when we're done, we'll be glad we did it. Our children and grandchildren will be glad we did it, that they're not stuck dealing with the same problems we're dealing with. Think about it, not having to use a confusing gaggle of units from multiple systems with sometimes catastrophic consequences, when you work in science knowing the units you're using intuitively like it's your native language, being able to use the same units as people from all across the world, and not having the whole rest of the world dumb units down to units you can understand because like a big overgrown baby you refuse to metricate.
I look over at this bag of Western Hearth by Van de Kamp's cracked wheat bread, and the label says its mass is, "NET WT 20 OZ (1 LB 4 OZ) 566g". Jesus Christ. Why are we still having to parse long strings like this to know how much of something we're having to get? Talk about information overload. There's so much information here that people just ignore it, they don't have time to parse strings like this for every single item they're getting. If we followed the proposal by metrication advocates, it would read something like, "NET WT 566g", and that's it. See how much simpler that is, how much less confusing that is? See also how it gives you an intuitive understanding of metric units because with experience you can start to develop a feel for these units, especially when coming at it as a kid?
Why are we denying children today the chance to grow up with an intuitive feeling for metric, to join the community of nations that use the same measurement system as the other countries? Because a whole bunch of old farts are too lazy and nationalistic, they can't bear the thought of having to learn something new, and we must bow down to them?
So, again, it's something we must do as a nation, and there's no reason not to do it now.
Why are we denying children today the chance to grow up with an intuitive feeling for metric, to join the community of nations that use the same measurement system as the other countries? Because a whole bunch of old farts are too lazy and nationalistic, they can't bear the thought of having to learn something new, and we must bow down to them?
SO NAME CALLING IS YOUR LATEST TECHNIQUE???? HOW CHILDISH.
"So, again, it's something we must do as a nation, and there's no reason not to do it now"....
....EXCEPT THAT YOUR WHINING PROVES NOTHING. THE REAL REASON FOR "not to do it now" IS THAT OTHER PEOPLE DON'T WANT IT. CAN'T YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD???? THERE'S NO REASON TO CALL OTHER PEOPLE NAMES BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET WHAT YOU WANT.
THE NEEDS OF THE MANY OUTWEIGH THE NEEDS OF THE FEW.
THE MANY HAVE SPOKEN SO STOP YOUR WHINING.
How do you know?
They already need to use inches for things like TV or computer screen sizes, and the the same happened with floppy-disk diameters. It's all a matter of pushing American innovations worldwide before they have a chance to develop alternative, metric standards. Eventually, if the US won't budge to the metric system, the rest of the world will abandon it to get rid of the burden of using two systems and converting all the time.
It'll be a permanent defeat for efficiency, but a victory for liberty.
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The red lake has been forgotten. A dust devil stuns you long enough to shroud forever those last shards of wisdom. The breeze rocking this forlorn wasteland whispers in your ears, “Não resta mais que uma sombra”.
Of course Canada prints everything in two languages, why don't they just get with the world and use one language
1. I live here
2. I'm under no obligation to adhere to majority preference
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I'm a math evangelist, I believe in theorems and ignore the proofs.
Feel free to stop visiting the thread if you no longer wish to discuss the topic.
I am addressing the topic. YOU'RE the one who wants to bring in ageism. If this is the subject perhaps I can say something snarky about younger people being too simple to grasp what people with more experience are saying???
But I don't do this, and in fact, I don't believe ANY of us are supposed to do that.
Perhaps you're just too sensitive??? Perhaps you feel you're as smart and experienced as you'll ever become and are now experiencing a slow but steady decline in your mental abilities and therefor believe when everyone gets older they don't get smarter...they get dumber. Did I guess right?
The points I bring up in earlier posts have to do with overall education and have been addressed by experts in the field...but you act as though, being unable to refute same, instead attack others because of their age and knowledge in such matters.
Perhaps a moderator will slam the door on this thread...it seems to have come unraveled.
Please just leave the name calling elsewhere (unless this IS the topic?).
Feel free to stop visiting the thread if you no longer wish to discuss the topic.
I am addressing the topic. YOU'RE the one who wants to bring in ageism. If this is the subject perhaps I can say something snarky about younger people being too simple to grasp what people with more experience are saying???
But I don't do this, and in fact, I don't believe ANY of us are supposed to do that.
Perhaps you're just too sensitive??? Perhaps you feel you're as smart and experienced as you'll ever become and are now experiencing a slow but steady decline in your mental abilities and therefor believe when everyone gets older they don't get smarter...they get dumber. Did I guess right?
The points I bring up in earlier posts have to do with overall education and have been addressed by experts in the field...but you act as though, being unable to refute same, instead attack others because of their age and knowledge in such matters.
Perhaps a moderator will slam the door on this thread...it seems to have come unraveled.
Please just leave the name calling elsewhere (unless this IS the topic?).
My apologies for the ageist remarks. I will watch myself in the future. This is a topic about which I am passionate and a bit obsessive in the aspie way.
As for experts, I am not aware of any experts in this thread that have argued against metric. None of your posts has citations. I have referenced experts in my posts, however. I have cited studies showing that mixing the 2 systems causes confusion and can lead to problems as part of my argument that we should use a single system in all circumstances, and metric is best-suited to this task.
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Of course Canada prints everything in two languages, why don't they just get with the world and use one language
1. I live here
2. I'm under no obligation to adhere to majority preference
No you're not but you can't force what you want on the majority either.
Here's how you switch the US to metric. Make it extremely profitable for big corporations.
If ANYTHING can be successful shoved down everyone's throats, it will be thru a corporate marketing campaign. People try to deny it. but american culture is based on advertising.
Just look at what has become popular over the years.
Metric just needs a good marketing campaign and a healthy profit incentive for investors.
The socialist "make it a regulation" approach has been unsuccessful here. many americans reject whatever "policy" forces upon them.
BUT, make it all colorful and sexy, have a good way parasites and bottom feeders can make tons of cash off of metric, and everything in the US will be metric by Xmas!! !
Of course, it will be so financially successful that by the following year, they will be selling us "Metric 2.0", now with 'centons' from Battlestar Galactica.
Rince and repeat....
in a few years, measurement systems have become as diverse as linux builds and bitcoin forks.
It's all about the money.
The corporations OWN washington DC, and do not want to spend the cash on re-tooling.
The only way to make it happen here is to make it attractive to THEM. Make it profitable, not a re-tooling expense.
The reason why everything is in two languages in Canada is because English and French are both the official languages of Canada.
There are quite a few French Canadians throughout Canada, but mostly in Quebec.
It's good that people have the opportunity to see more than one language in their everyday life. It broadens their horizons.
As for the Metric System, I know it quite well, so If we implement the Metric System here in the US, I would have no objection.
I would like to discuss an oft neglected issue involved in not using metric: If we don't use metric in our everyday lives, then it would not be intuitive to us making us less likely to catch an error using metric units. I'd like to go back to the 25 lb toddler, whose weight/mass in metric is 11.3 kg. At the hospital the child was measured on a scale using pounds, which came out to 25 lb, and the nurse was supposed to enter the weight to be converted to metric in the system. However, she did it wrong and the system read "25" as 25 kg, more than double the child's actual weight/mass of 11.3 kg! When medication was prescribed for the child, it was dosed according to the child's weight, so the child received more than double the correct dose, causing an overdose!
In other countries, where people are familiar with metric and use it in their everyday lives, they likely would have taken one look at that child and known that there was no way the child was 25 kg! They would have recognized there was an error and taken steps to correct it. The problem in America, however, is that even if we know how the metric system works we aren't very familiar with it, so we don't really have a feel for the units. Because of that, to them, 25 kg was just some number they were supposed to use: they did not realize how ridiculous the weight/mass given was, because they lacked the intuition to discern it on the spot!
What is the solution? Go to metric nationwide so people start becoming familiar with metric units, so they develop an intuition for them. That way, we can prevent other such errors from happening.
Source, which also discusses other cases where the pharmacist rather than the hospital made the error. In one case, the doctor prescribed 6 mL of a liquid medication for the child, but the pharmacy misprinted it as 6 teaspoons, which comes out to 29.38 mL! So the child received 5 times the dose they were supposed to get, resulting in a massive overdose that brought the child to the emergency room!
http://www.teammetric.org/the-metric-sy ... ealthcare/
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
By overtaxing American children's working memory by requiring them to work in fragmented customary units and making them convert between customary and metric, our children are weak at spatial measurement. In addition, children of color and poor children have an especially hard time at this task. This is despite the heavy emphasis on spatial measurement the American education system has:
http://www.teammetric.org/measurement/
http://www.teammetric.org/reasons2/
More on overtaxing working memory due to not having a feel for metric units, therefore needing to convert in your head (which taxes working memory!):
http://www.teammetric.org/benefits3/
Converting to metric is absolutely necessary to make ourselves more competitive in STEM fields.
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
It appears one big reason the conversion attempt in the 1970s failed was because there was too much emphasis on conversion formulas between customary and metric, which over-complicates things. Instead, when we convert, we should just switch to straight up metric and use conversion formulas only when absolutely necessary. The best way to learn metric is to get a feel for metric units, to have that intuition of the approximate weight or measure of something, and you do that by using it without relying on a customary crutch:
One of the complaints that I’ve heard while on this project has been that our last attempt to convert to the metric system back in the mid-1970s spent too much time trying to teach people conversion formulas. Transitioning this way is actually quite complicated because there are so many formulas to memorize because we use so many different units (feet, pounds, ounces, gallons, ounces, etc.). The image to the right only captures part of the problem.
Any future plans to adopt the metric system would benefit from just straight measurement using the metric system, rather than trying to teach very complex and lengthy sets of conversion factors. (Only convert when absolutely necessary, like your grandma’s favorite recipes.)
Complicated "conversion helper":

https://milebehind.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... ic-system/
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Theres also the Mars Climate Orbiter which was lost due to a discrepancy in units being used between Lockheed Martin and NASA. It was a $125 million dollar mistake.
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I'm a math evangelist, I believe in theorems and ignore the proofs.
It doesn't matter how much better you think it is if people don't want to change, if it was too much of a disruption then Americans would simply vote to get rid of it. There has to be a benefit to regular people otherwise they're going to tell you to pound sand, they don't care if it's used in STEM. Last year Rasmussen asked the question and put it a t 21% supporting metrication, 64% opposing, 15% undecided. Trying to force a change would result in a major backlash, I think the push in the 70s is a big reason why 64% oppose is so high so to go even further with that line of thinking definitely wouldn't work. Should we have metric time and the decabet too?
There's no legal way for the US to mandate the metric system either. There has to be an incentive or a tangible benefit, find the dollar amount or tell us how many jobs it would produce. If it can't provide a benefit to 95% of Americans then they won't do it.
Also not sure I buy that teaching both makes them weaker at both, that was what was thought originally with language but we now know that isn't true and the brain benefits from bilingualism. Perhaps the US should put more pressure on it's partners to adopt our system of measurement, we have the biggest economy in the world and the most influential culture so it wouldn't be too hard. I know the UK is sort of wavering a bit now that they've voted to leave the EU.
Also not sure I buy that teaching both makes them weaker at both, that was what was thought originally with language but we now know that isn't true and the brain benefits from bilingualism. Perhaps the US should put more pressure on it's partners to adopt our system of measurement, we have the biggest economy in the world and the most influential culture so it wouldn't be too hard. I know the UK is sort of wavering a bit now that they've voted to leave the EU.
You think the U.S. should pressure other countries to adopt U.S. customary units. Why? What would be in it for these other countries?
What would be the benefit of retooling STEM and medicine to U.S. customary?
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Also not sure I buy that teaching both makes them weaker at both, that was what was thought originally with language but we now know that isn't true and the brain benefits from bilingualism. Perhaps the US should put more pressure on it's partners to adopt our system of measurement, we have the biggest economy in the world and the most influential culture so it wouldn't be too hard. I know the UK is sort of wavering a bit now that they've voted to leave the EU.
Where is your evidence that using both customary and metric is the same as being bilingual? I've posted research on this thread, at multiple points, showing that, actually, using both customary and metric is confusing and can have disastrous consequences. It's not like being bilingual in that regard. Unless you have research to back up your point, my point stands.
You think the U.S. should pressure other countries to adopt U.S. customary units. Why? What would be in it for these other countries?
What would be the benefit of retooling STEM and medicine to U.S. customary?
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"You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
