Wanting to get the old factory jobs back

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Jacoby
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22 Feb 2017, 12:06 pm

beneficii wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Mercantilism was the primary European economic mode before the advent of capitalism.

I'm referring to the thinking that went behind those policies, which were essentially that trade was a zero-sum game and all nations are competing over resources, with winners and losers.

This is the type of thinking Jacoby espouses. Is Jacoby correct?

Looking at history it seems to be pass the smell test , even the US's rise to superpowerdom came at the expense of almost the total destruction of Europe and the splitting of the world between the capitalists and communists. Who has gotten more out of our economic relations with say Mexico or China?

MDD123
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22 Feb 2017, 12:25 pm

Jacoby wrote:

MDD123 wrote:

There's no use beating a dead horse about automation. Robots , however, have a long, long way to go before they can replace skilled trades; not to mention that when things go wrong with a system, they still need a human to troubleshoot it.

Why wouldn't a machine be able to troubleshoot? AI will far surpass human intelligence in the not so distant future. 10 or 20 years down the line things are going to normal that you never thought possible.

Troubleshooting is more than intellectual, you have to rely on your senses a lot and be able to modify the equipment appropriately. Robots are still clumsy outside of a controlled work envelope. I can't anticipate how they'll be in 20 years, but they have some hurdles to overcome.

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Jacoby
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22 Feb 2017, 12:46 pm

If they can make automated cars then I think they could make automated troubleshooting of whatever

also the whole 'well somebody needs to maintinance to robots" thing doesn't provide any assurances anyways since that is at best a 1 person replacing like what at least 100 workers probably more workers? The one persons bargaining power will be essentially zero too with such a glut of labor, your life and contribution individually is meaningless and easily replaced. Technological slavery seems like a very real possibility.

kraftiekortie
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22 Feb 2017, 7:02 pm

I wouldn't get into a car that I cannot control myself.

ASPartOfMe
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23 Feb 2017, 5:08 am

beneficii wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Trump is fighting a previous battle. In the third world as the robots and computers are eventually going to take most of the jobs the slave laborers are doing. A large part of the population everywhere will not be capable of doing the remaining jobs.

And us baby boomers are becoming or will become geriatric

There will not be enough people left to pay taxes for guaranteed income and benefits, then what?

With automation there will be higher production and thus wealth in total. It would seem we should tax that wealth to make up for reduced total labor waged.

Higher production for people who can not afford to buy is not sustainable so the wealth will not be there. And then there is all that "wealth" that is really credit. Our "recovery" is a ponzi scheme on steroids, unsustainable.

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The_Walrus
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23 Feb 2017, 7:56 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

I wouldn't get into a car that I cannot control myself.

Of course you would. You've almost certainly done so thousands of times in your life.

kraftiekortie
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23 Feb 2017, 8:01 am

I meant.....without the POSSIBILITY of myself, or anybody else, being able to control it.

Obviously, before the age of 36, I had to rely on others to control the vehicle I was in.

BTDT
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23 Feb 2017, 9:24 am

Jacoby wrote:

Oh they know we exist and this is how they are preparing

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... super-rich

Quote:

The fears vary, but many worry that, as artificial intelligence takes away a growing share of jobs, there will be a backlash against Silicon Valley, America’s second-highest concentration of wealth. (Southwestern Connecticut is first.) “I’ve heard this theme from a bunch of people,” Hoffman said. “Is the country going to turn against the wealthy? Is it going to turn against technological innovation? Is it going to turn into civil disorder?”

Just because a few wealthy Tycoons are aware doesn't mean they all are. Just look at this forum. Just because there are a few smart people who get it doesn't mean we all get it.

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23 Feb 2017, 9:32 am

I don't believe WE will allow machines to take over the functions of humanity.

sly279
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23 Feb 2017, 6:19 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I meant.....without the POSSIBILITY of myself, or anybody else, being able to control it.

Obviously, before the age of 36, I had to rely on others to control the vehicle I was in.

It'll probably become mandatory if the democrats have their way. If all cars were automated deaths from car accidents would potentially plummet. Though you the new open it up to hacking

MDD123
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24 Feb 2017, 10:20 pm

I wouldn't mind a self driving car, I already spend 90-120 minutes a day commuting and I would rather spend the time doing something useful.

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Sweetleaf
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24 Feb 2017, 11:41 pm

Jacoby wrote:

As usual it seems the opposite solution will be pushed, everyone must go to college and become a debt slave even tho the most common degrees are worthless and there are no real jobs. College becoming a 2nd high school is a bigger crime than racial segregation or poll tax or Jim Crow, upward mobility does not exist anymore in this country.

If there is nothing to move forward too then you're not looking towards the past, it's all there is.

Or consider the idea of universal basic income and more leisure time...

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hurtloam
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25 Feb 2017, 2:10 am

Jacoby wrote:

While I'll agree that some degrees really are not practical and won't help you find work there are many useful vocational courses. Would you want an unqualified fitness instructor? Id prefer one who had done a course.

There's programming, beauty therapy, accounting, secretarial studies, auto mechanics, and so on that you can learn at college.

We need more apprenticeships. Joiners, plumbers, electricians will never not be needed.

Of course as Sweet Leaf says, we shouldn't treat customer service people as beneath us and they should have living wages.in Scandinavian countries hospitality is a career and is respected rather than just a stepping stone.

Jacoby
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25 Feb 2017, 4:16 pm

hurtloam wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

I think more should be done to steer people towards careers in areas of need and part of that would be not subsidizing fields which provide no tangible benefit to the degree holder, education isn't a bad thing but it isn't allocated fairly at all and we have a system that only benefits the most privileged. Public education should educate people for work, the problem with it in this country is that it is used as a vehicle for indoctrination and ideology instead of actual utility.

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25 Feb 2017, 5:55 pm

Jacoby wrote:

We just elected someone who is busy appointing people who are intent on further benefiting the most privileged. If you examine the proposals you have to spend money to get money back. If you are poor and don't have money, well that is just your tough luck.

LoveNotHate
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25 Feb 2017, 7:54 pm

This is how our education system is working.

Millions of kids take on soul-crushing debt for the hope of a job.

Debt that will ruin their lives. Debt which will prevent them from owning a home.

Feb 2017:Student Loan Debt In 2017: A $1.3 Trillion Crisis
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedm ... 2e8cb15dab

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 25 Feb 2017, 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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