ObamaGate is getting big

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friedmacguffins
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21 May 2017, 11:53 am

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No scandal named "Aspiegate"?

hacking = weaponized autism

friedmacguffins
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21 May 2017, 11:54 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Is anyone even talking about this so called Obamagate idiocy anymore? I tend to think even most Trumpanzees have come to realize this was nothing more than just Trump's baseless paranoia, or an ill-thought out, vindictive tit-for-tat on his part.

Assuming that it's dialectic, both sides would be compromised.

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21 May 2017, 12:58 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

Assuming that it's dialectic, both sides would be compromised.

How so?

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friedmacguffins
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21 May 2017, 1:34 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(psychology)

Kraichgauer
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21 May 2017, 2:53 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation_(psychology)

If you're inferring that the Russia investigation holds as much water as Trump's claims that Obama had spied on him, it should be remembered that the FBI and even some leading Republicans agree with the Democrats that there is fire in that smoke. That, and Trump's badly hidden relationship with Russian oligarchs, his and his top aides' meetings with top Russian spy masters, as well as the resignations of Putin's American fixer-turned-Trump-advisor, Paul Mannifort, and the out-and-out firing of Flynn for his secret Russian connections, makes this obvious, whereas Trump based his claims solely on what he learned from Breitbart - as if that's a legitimate source.

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Aristophanes
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21 May 2017, 9:16 pm

Darmok wrote:

And it is kind of curious how Obama fled the country shortly after the inauguration, and is now somewhere in the South Pacific... :mrgreen:

I had no idea Washington D.C. was in the South Pacific, here all these years I thought it was between Maryland and Virginia. Damn all that schooling I took with it's damn lies!

EzraS
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22 May 2017, 3:44 am

All that and still not an iota of empirical evidence has surfaced. It seems like one is just fueled by a lot more hysteria than the other. And somehow mass hysteria equals more credibility.

friedmacguffins
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22 May 2017, 8:18 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

If you're inferring that the Russia investigation holds as much water as Trump's claims that Obama had spied on him...

So, you have a Russia claim vs. a Russia claim, and decided to blame someone other than Russia.

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22 May 2017, 2:17 pm

friedmacguffins wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

If you're inferring that the Russia investigation holds as much water as Trump's claims that Obama had spied on him...

So, you have a Russia claim vs. a Russia claim, and decided to blame someone other than Russia.

What Russia claim vs a Russia claim? I only know of one Russia scandal that has come to encompass several people.

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funeralxempire
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22 May 2017, 5:09 pm

EzraS wrote:

All that and still not an iota of empirical evidence has surfaced. It seems like one is just fueled by a lot more hysteria than the other. And somehow mass hysteria equals more credibility.

How often is the public kept abreast of ongoing investigations? The last thing they need is to help the cover-up effort.

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Aristophanes
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22 May 2017, 5:33 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

All that and still not an iota of empirical evidence has surfaced. It seems like one is just fueled by a lot more hysteria than the other. And somehow mass hysteria equals more credibility.

How often is the public kept abreast of ongoing investigations? The last thing they need is to help the cover-up effort.

Watergate is a great example of this: there was no smoking gun tying Nixon to the break-in, a lot of threads that kept leading back to him, but no hard evidence. As the investigation went on more and more threads began to appear and Nixon eventually resigned before impeachment was actually voted upon because he knew it would inevitably lead to him. The Watergate investigation lasted nearly two years by that point-- just because an investigation, especially one at the highest levels of government, doesn't produce hard evidence to the public immediately doesn't mean it's not there.

Michael Flynn's lawyer announced today he would plead the 5th at the senate investigation hearing, that means he's refusing to incriminate himself as allowed by law, but it also means there's incriminating evidence there, at least on his end. It could be that Flynn was acting on his own and that's as far as it goes, but as Watergate showed, it could also be the first thread of many.

EzraS
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22 May 2017, 10:21 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

All that and still not an iota of empirical evidence has surfaced. It seems like one is just fueled by a lot more hysteria than the other. And somehow mass hysteria equals more credibility.

How often is the public kept abreast of ongoing investigations? The last thing they need is to help the cover-up effort.

I don't know what you're talking about. There's continuous live streams of all of it.

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22 May 2017, 10:30 pm

Aristophanes wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

EzraS wrote:

All that and still not an iota of empirical evidence has surfaced. It seems like one is just fueled by a lot more hysteria than the other. And somehow mass hysteria equals more credibility.

How often is the public kept abreast of ongoing investigations? The last thing they need is to help the cover-up effort.

But in this case there has always supposedly been a smoking gun. Intelligence has supposedly held and examined the supposed smoking gun and submitted an official report full of conjecture regarding the smoking gun. A direct accusation was made from the very beginning.

This would be comparable to Watergate if at the very beginning it was being said that Nixon was tied to the break-in. If from the beginning they were directly singling out and investigating Nixon.

The_Walrus
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23 May 2017, 11:34 am

EzraS wrote:

And that would be a good analogy if Nixon had publicly called for the DNC to be illegally wiretapped.

Before last July, Trump was assumed to be the fortunate beneficiary of Putin's campaign against Clinton. While some were asking whether he had ties to Russia, those suspicions were no stronger than the suspicions around Clinton when the Watergate investigation started.

ASPartOfMe
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23 May 2017, 11:53 am

While everybody was focused on the Manchester attack this story broke

Trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against FBI collusion probe after Comey revealed its existence

Quote:

President Trump asked two of the nation’s top intelligence officials in March to help him push back against an FBI investigation into possible coordination between his campaign and the Russian government, according to current and former officials.

Trump made separate appeals to the director of national intelligence, Daniel Coats, and to Adm. Michael S. Rogers, the director of the National Security Agency, urging them to publicly deny the existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election.

Coats and Rogers refused to comply with the requests, which they both deemed to be inappropriate, according to two current and two former officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss private communications with the president.

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Kraichgauer
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23 May 2017, 2:04 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

While everybody was focused on the Manchester attack this story broke

Trump asked intelligence chiefs to push back against FBI collusion probe after Comey revealed its existence

Quote:

I wonder if Coats and Rogers are going to be fired now.
Nixon, in fact, had tried to blackmail the CIA into helping him make Watergate go away with the mysterious "Bay of Pigs thing getting out."

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