Why is the US against Assad?

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jrjones9933
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14 Apr 2017, 11:35 am

Jacoby wrote:

If you can justify a relationship with Saudi Arabia and China then why not Russia? Russia and the US have many shared interests and together would make the world a much safer place, I have no interest in another 'great game' to be played like some do.

People brought up during that time seem to carry a lot of xenophobic prejudice against Russia, it's manipulation

Inaccurate throughout. Your usual disparagement of anyone who sees the situation differently gives you simple explanations, at least.

When has anyone on the left ignored human rights violations in Saudi Arabia, China, or Russia? It's the right who oppose interventions on that level. I don't mean the politicians, but the voters. Trusting politicians is a losing game every time on all sides.

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JohnPowell
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14 Apr 2017, 1:08 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

Read what I've written above. I guess he heard the mainstream media's claims that sarin had been used and then wondered why the terrorist medical workers were handling the children with only a disposable mask. I wouldn't put anything past the US and their allies.
You keep talking about 'gassing civilians'. For one, you have no evidence Assad did it. And secondly he had no motive at all, he was winning the war and knew the only thing that could get the US to turn on him would be a chemical attack. Demand that your government pulls out of the Middle East and all the other places around the world and focuses on its own problems.

Yes, it was rational, as rational as the US nuking Japan, the Japan already lost and the nukes were probably unnecessary - but it was the safest choice in their POV to end the war with the least US casualties.

And he was confident no one would retaliate; Trump was so strongly believed to be Russia's best friend and his speeches leaning way more to Assad in the syrian conflict - The whole Pro-Assad/Russia camp got totally overjoyed upon Trump's victory in presidency.
The Trump strike was a total unexpected surprise move, it was in no one's calculations including in Assad's calculations.

Any analyst claiming today to have foreseen the Trump attack is a big liar. No one ever imagined that it could happen.

"Probably unnecessary". That's sick. They just nuked Japan to test them. It's OK when the US nukes people though eh? What if someone said Assad gassed those people to limit army casualties? Be consistent.

You're just repeating random conspiracy theories made up by the media and Co. He had no reason to launch the attack and was winning the war.

Quote:

"Probably unnecessary". That's sick. They just nuked Japan to test them. It's OK when the US nukes people though eh? .

The nuking was sick, I was not saying it's ethically justified in any form, but I am talking from purely US military POV - the pro-nuke americans often repeat in their arguments that it was necessary to win the war with the least casualties, it is their most common argument. The Assad may have thought the same for his sarin attack

Quote:

What if someone said Assad gassed those people to limit army casualties? Be consistent

But this exactly why Assad may have gassed this area. I am being very consistent in this point, you get it now?

Quote:

You're just repeating random conspiracy theories made up by the media and Co. He had no reason to launch the attack and was winning the war.

You're still denying the fact that....no one expected Trump would do a such thing.

Hell, Hezbollah people in the area close to mine were almost celebrating for Trump's win in the elections. :lol:

EVERY ONE of them thought that Trump means a guarantee for the US to switch sides or at the very least to step aside in this conflict, no one ever imagined that he would bomb the Assad side one day.

This guy is totally unpredictable, he may ally with Assad one day, who knows.

The difference being that the US are proud of nuking civilians, Assad denies it and had no reason to do it. He has weapons and has allies that could provide more weapons and support if needed. If he was going to use chemical weapons, he'd have used it against the enemy.

So you're calling for the US to be stopped by the international community? Or at least be held accountable for all their actions over the years.

I'm not denying that at all, I certainly didn't expect it. I encouraged people to vote Trump as he was the better option out of two awful candidates.

I don't blame them, Trump was the least anti-war candidate going by his rhetoric and was talking about fighting on the same side as Syria and Co, and he was doing that for 3 months. Syria was the one thing he'd been consistent on though. Worrying why he changed on it.

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JohnPowell
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14 Apr 2017, 1:11 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

Yes, the US did, indeed, nuke Japan. There are arguments which state that thus "nuking" prevented millions of further deaths on both the US and Japan sides. That doesn't make it good for the residents of Nagasaki or Hiroshima, though.

But that was in 1945. This is 2017. We have restrained ourselves from nuclear attacks since then....and so has everybody else, for obvious reasons.

No matter who conducts a chemical attack, we must stop them, and prevent them from happening in the future. Chemical attacks are second only to nuclear attacks in the tragedy which can be induced.

What is it about Putin and Russia which causes the "Alt-right" to esteem them so?

Well the Nazi holocaust ended in 1945, so we just forget that too eh? You've used chemical weapons against other countries and haven't stopped intervening.

Maybe you shouldn't be giving Israel $10 million a day when they used white phosphorus in 2008/9 in Gaza.

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14 Apr 2017, 6:06 pm

JohnPowell wrote:

Haha. I love it how you're suddenly so skeptical when it comes to information that would mean you'd have to alter your opinion. But anything you see on TV or from someone you agree with you just swallow it without question.

I think I shall go with The_Face_of_Boo, as he is much closer to the actual facts regarding what had taken place on the ground than you or I.

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14 Apr 2017, 6:11 pm

Jacoby wrote:

Maybe the alt-right doesn't want to get stuck into another decades long cold war with an 'enemy' that isn't really an enemy? Obsessing about Russian interference has been a long tried and true deflection technique. If you can justify a relationship with Saudi Arabia and China then why not Russia? Russia and the US have many shared interests and together would make the world a much safer place, I have no interest in another 'great game' to be played like some do.

People brought up during that time seem to carry a lot of xenophobic prejudice against Russia, it's manipulation

Or maybe the Alt Right has a hard-on for having a strongman in power. Remember, it was Alt Right star, Richard Spencer, who had ended a Trump victory rally with: "Hail Trump! Hail our people! Hail victory!"

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jrjones9933
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14 Apr 2017, 7:54 pm

*hands Bill a mic and suggests that he drop it*

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Kraichgauer
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14 Apr 2017, 10:23 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:

*hands Bill a mic and suggests that he drop it*

Thank you, thank you very much.

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Chronos
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15 Apr 2017, 12:42 am

Jacoby wrote:

Understand that while the Russian people may be happy to have no tensions between their country and the US, Putin, being an ex-KGB agent who grew up in soviet Russia during the cold war, seems to continue to posses certain soviet perspectives on US/Russia relations. Namely, the idea that it is Russia that should be the foremost world power, and the US should not. This mentality means that Russia should not be completely trusted.

Jacoby
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15 Apr 2017, 1:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

jrjones9933 wrote:

*hands Bill a mic and suggests that he drop it*

Thank you, thank you very much.

You two should get a room

Richard Spencer is more relevant to you two and people like you than anybody else

JohnPowell
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15 Apr 2017, 2:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

I think I shall go with The_Face_of_Boo, as he is much closer to the actual facts regarding what had taken place on the ground than you or I.

I knew you'd be too closed minded to look at the facts and change your mind. The people in the video have been to 'rebel' held areas. Bartlett has been to Syria 6 times and is fluent in Arabic. Keep believing whatever keeps you comfortable.

Jacoby
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15 Apr 2017, 2:25 am

Talking to Bill is like talking to a brick wall, don't expect him to do any critical thinking. Just keep up on your CNN talking points and you'll know what's up.

Jacoby
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15 Apr 2017, 2:32 am

Chronos wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

It goes both ways, if Russia is a FSB/KGB state then the US is a CIA one. There are a lot of people that don't want to have normal relations with Russia, there are a lot of people that want to continue to pressure and break apart Russia so it never can be put back together again. Intelligence agencies should never be trusted ever, they do not have the best interests of their people at heart. Textbook example of this is what these so called 'intelligence agencies' have done since Trump has been elected, the fact that we speak of a deep state in this country should be profoundly disturbing.

We should work with the Russians when we can, what is the danger of trusting them? It is the US that is the much more powerful nation so it shouldn't be the US who is scared.

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15 Apr 2017, 5:45 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

JohnPowell wrote:

I think I shall go with The_Face_of_Boo, as he is much closer to the actual facts regarding what had taken place on the ground than you or I.

There are people living here who have the same opinions and thoughts as JohnPowell on Assad, so there are two camps of thoughts on this here too.

The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Apr 2017, 6:04 am

And why this Evet's opinion should be sacred and believed without any questioning? Just because she lived in Syria and speaks fluent Arabic?
Maybe she's biased, maybe she is a communist or hardliner socialist who simply loves the likes of Assad, maybe she lived only among the pro-Assad areas.

So what now, I should believe her instead that Assad is the all-good guy, and all others against him are the only all-evil doers - should I forget what his army and intelligence did here, was It all illusion?

Was she expecting that the people she interviews on the street will tell her their true feelings or to express criticism on Assad while she is accompanied with regime soldiers? A regime which has a long history to make anyone disappears for just expressing any criticism against it?

Maybe she works undercover for the RT tv, who knows; I see no reason why I should give her more credibility than other journalists.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 15 Apr 2017, 6:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Apr 2017, 6:27 am

And she doesn't seem to be too honest as well:

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... n-children

jrjones9933
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15 Apr 2017, 10:18 am

Jacoby wrote:

Textbook example of this is what these so called 'intelligence agencies' have done since Trump has been elected, the fact that we speak of a deep state in this country should be profoundly disturbing.

It is disturbing, but not because you have provided any evidence to support that claim. The disturbing part is the level of blind conviction.

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