A belief in meritocracy is not only false: it’s bad for you

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Fnord
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20 Mar 2019, 2:57 pm

Crimadella wrote:

Fnord wrote:

If "Luck is chance that falls in your favor" blended thoroughly with "Preparation meeting opportunity", then I can go along with that. But remember, winning the lottery involves preparation -- you have to buy a ticket. The lottery itself is the opportunity. Otherwise, the mechanics are irrelevant to the results.

I understand preparation definitely helps, but it is not required for luck. One can be sitting in there yard and the wind blows a twenty dollar bill up in your lap, there was no preparation involved.

Yes … I would have been prepared by sitting in the yard, not in the basement.

"Luck", as most people believe, borders on the miraculous. If that 20-dollar bill suddenly materialized from nowhere, then I would call it "Luck".

Kraichgauer
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20 Mar 2019, 2:58 pm

One has to consider the other side of success - the lack of it. Ideas of a meritocracy leading others to believe that a successful person has intelligence and work ethic are also made to feel those who aren't lack those things, if not due to disability, then to being stupid and lazy. In fact, there are doubtlessly millions of people who haven't been able to catch a break, even though they are good at their jobs or have a specific talent. How many of these people beat themselves up every day because they believe they aren't trying hard enough?

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Crimadella
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20 Mar 2019, 3:02 pm

Fnord wrote:

Crimadella wrote:

Fnord wrote:

I understand preparation definitely helps, but it is not required for luck. One can be sitting in there yard and the wind blows a twenty dollar bill up in your lap, there was no preparation involved.

Yes … I would have been sitting in the yard, not in the basement.

"Luck", as most people believe, borders on the miraculous. If that 20-dollar bill suddenly materialized from nowhere, then I would call it "Luck".

It really boils down to how you define luck, people mostly view luck as a 'mystical' thing, but one can also view it as a matter of coincidence of chance. Actually, that is even how it is defined, you can have good luck and you can have bad luck...

-Definition-
Luck : success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

Fnord
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20 Mar 2019, 3:07 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

… How many of these people beat themselves up every day because they believe they aren't trying hard enough?

Probably as many as are merely adequate for their position, or who are doing just enough to get by.

Look, hardly a year goes by that someone doesn't ask me something like, "Why did they get raises and not I?" Then I have to explain that "they" have taken night classes, volunteered for overtime, and were quick to step in an help others without being asked.

"No," they say. "They just got lucky."

Or maybe those who did not receive raises imply some special "relationship" between the people who received the raises and the people who gave them. Then I have to get with HR and initiate an investigation which does nothing but upset a lot of people.

No … Preparation meets opportunity … That's how it works.

Kraichgauer
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20 Mar 2019, 3:14 pm

Fnord wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

… How many of these people beat themselves up every day because they believe they aren't trying hard enough?

I think there will always be those who do go the extra mile, get extra education, or preparation, and still get overlooked.

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Fnord
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20 Mar 2019, 3:23 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think there will always be those who do go the extra mile, get extra education, or preparation, and still get overlooked.

There is no denying that it happens just as you said. That is when Monster.com (or similar employment service) comes in handy.

If you're busting your hump and some smooth-talking dweeb gets made your boss, then it's time to prepare your résumé and start looking for a better job.

And for that you will also have to prepare to meet the qualifications of the job(s) you want.

Otherwise, just stay where you are, do nothing, and hope that your "luck" holds out and you are offered a six-figure salary and a fancy corner office at a billion-dollar global corporation.

Just don't try holding your breath until it happens.

Fnord
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20 Mar 2019, 4:51 pm

Crimadella wrote:

… Luck : success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

You made this one up, didn't you?

Here's what Merriam-Webster has to say...

luck (n):

1) a force that brings good fortune or adversity

2) the events or circumstances that operate for or against an individual

3) favoring chance

Crimadella
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20 Mar 2019, 5:31 pm

Fnord wrote:

Crimadella wrote:

… Luck : success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

Ha!

No, I didn't make mine up. I typed in the Google search engine "luck definition" and that's the definition it gave.

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20 Mar 2019, 5:56 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Crimadella wrote:

… It becomes a fuzzy line to suggest people who live in fear choose to do so, anxieties and phobias are disabilities also.

I was scared when I walked out of my father's house and signed up for university back in '75. I was scared when I approached all of those businesses for employment to put myself through school. I was scared when I moved into the dorm and when I moved out into my first apartment. I was scared when I walked away from graduation and into my first real job. I was scared when I enlisted in the military. I was scared when I faced my first combat situation. I was scared when I was discharged and had to find a job. I was scared when I quit that job to get another job -- not just the first time, but every time thereafter. I was scared when I got married. I was scared when I became a father (2x). I was scared when she divorced me. I was scared every moment of living on the streets. I was scared when I got married again. I was scared...

Y'know … I've spent most of my life being scared. But I've also chosen to push through that fear and made something of myself -- something more than a scared little boy whimpering in the corner for fear of being rejected by a hostile world.

I think people don't want to give credit for success to successful people because it would force them to admit that personal success depends on personal effort and merit when they would rather blame their own failures on anything and anyone other than themselves.

And I find that people who want to attribute their success to 100% their own "awesomeness" are just too egotistical to admit that they've had lucky breaks not available to others, and are too scared to acknowledge that not everything in life is completely within one's control.

I took a different slant to this particular discussion...
I.E. Fnord seems to be taking an: "If I can do it, anyone can" attitude...
I believe Fnord underestimates his inherent abilities in his success which may or may not include an element of luck...

<psychoanalyitcal mode off> :mrgreen:

kraftiekortie
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20 Mar 2019, 6:00 pm

I've only had "relative success" because I was "in the right place at the right time."

I got my civil service job through a woman who advised me to go on an interview for the agency where I work at now. I almost didn't go to the interview because I was lazy and I lacked confidence. I didn't know it was a civil service job at the time.

I went on the interview because it would have been a $60 weekly raise in my salary. I was making $140 a week at my previous job. I would be making $200 a week now.

So I went to the interview, and the interviewer made me feel at ease. They were amazed at my typing ability. I was hired right away. This was November, 1980. The woman who referred me didn't get the job.

I became full-fledged civil service in May, 1982.

I was pretty lucky, all in all.

Pepe
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20 Mar 2019, 6:20 pm

Crimadella wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Crimadella wrote:

… Luck : success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

Ha!

No, I didn't make mine up. I typed in the Google search engine "luck definition" and that's the definition it gave.

And *that* dear children is the virtue of supplying a link to the source...
And *that* is why I am so goodly and head and shoulders above my peers... :mrgreen:

But then again, do I have any peers, apart from Sheldon Lee Cooper?

Pepe
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20 Mar 2019, 7:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

… How many of these people beat themselves up every day because they believe they aren't trying hard enough?

I think there will always be those who do go the extra mile, get extra education, or preparation, and still get overlooked.

Of course...
And who you know and not what you know is sometimes a bigger determinant on how you perform in a financial or career context in life...
I was lucky that way...<shrug>

I get the impression that Fnord thinks some people need an awakening...
That people need to break away from personal inertia and be more proactive if they want to improve their situation...
And that they need to be introduced to the concept of "critical thinking"...
Certainly the case in some situations, but life is not that simple most of the time, imo...

If the economy of a country is such that employment opportunities are scarce....
If you find yourself competing for the same job as are a 100 others...
Your success rate won't be exceptional unless you are an exceptional individual...<shrug>

At 16 I was one of the biggest idiots I have ever met...errrm...
This was seemingly not the case with Fnord...<shrug>

kraftiekortie
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20 Mar 2019, 7:04 pm

There were over 200 applicants for what, in essence, is my particular job.

Pepe
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20 Mar 2019, 7:17 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

There were over 200 applicants for what, in essence, is my particular job.

Beautiful...
Glad to hear it...
Couldn't have happened to a nicer person... :wink:

But I am not sure if you are boasting or making the point that job selection is a lucky dip...

Please explain... :mrgreen:

kraftiekortie
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20 Mar 2019, 7:21 pm

I got my job 38 years ago. There weren't 200 applicants for it then.

My point is....is that, these days, one has to be persistent in searching for work.

I was totally shocked when I found that out.

Fnord
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20 Mar 2019, 7:31 pm

It never ceases to amaze me how often preparation and effort have granted me good "luck".

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