10 May 2019, 8:50 am
Daniel89 wrote:
Britain belongs to the British and we should be allowed to decide who can settle here.
Oh Dan! and you were doing so well
10 May 2019, 8:52 am
SaveFerris wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Tommy Robinson is a racist f**k at the very least.
And anyone who claims he is isn't, isn't very clued up on his checkered past.
And anyone who claims he is isn't, isn't very clued up on his checkered past.
How is he racist though? He joined the BNP but left when they wouldn't let his black mate in.
He is racist due to his upbringing and peers , he has tried to make out that he is not racist and distance himself from his past , he has rebranded himself almost as a politician
and only wants to talk about religion. He is very careful about what he says so you won't find much to prove this , occasionally he lets his mask slip I found this comment which states thing far better than I ever could
Quote:
The first important thing to note is that whether Tommy’s comments here are ‘racist’ or simply ‘hateful towards a large group of people with no adequate cause, based on stereotypes’ is somewhat irrelevant, as the content is equally as vile, stupid, and dangerous.
The second important thing to be aware of is that just because Tommy never criticises ‘blacks’ or ‘browns’, but instead people from certain countries in the Middle East and people of a certain religion, this doesn’t mean that he isn’t racist or that the tweets aren’t racist.
There’s a recognized political technique called ‘dog-whistling’ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics) which, true to its name, utilises the ability to appear non-racist in order to hide racist sentiments. For example, someone who hates non-whites might not talk about a ‘black takeover’ but rather the ‘destruction of western civilization’ or, as is the case here, use Islam as a scapegoat to make very obviously racially-charged comment. Lee Atwater, a Republican strategist in the ’80s, recognised this.
He said that: ‘You start out in 1954 by saying, “N*gger, n*gger, n*gger.” By 1968, you can’t say “n*gger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N*gger, n*gger.”‘
Anyway, I hope my point has been clearly made – a lack of obvious racial hatred doesn’t mean someone, or something, can’t be racist.
The second important thing to be aware of is that just because Tommy never criticises ‘blacks’ or ‘browns’, but instead people from certain countries in the Middle East and people of a certain religion, this doesn’t mean that he isn’t racist or that the tweets aren’t racist.
There’s a recognized political technique called ‘dog-whistling’ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics) which, true to its name, utilises the ability to appear non-racist in order to hide racist sentiments. For example, someone who hates non-whites might not talk about a ‘black takeover’ but rather the ‘destruction of western civilization’ or, as is the case here, use Islam as a scapegoat to make very obviously racially-charged comment. Lee Atwater, a Republican strategist in the ’80s, recognised this.
He said that: ‘You start out in 1954 by saying, “N*gger, n*gger, n*gger.” By 1968, you can’t say “n*gger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that. But I’m saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “N*gger, n*gger.”‘
Anyway, I hope my point has been clearly made – a lack of obvious racial hatred doesn’t mean someone, or something, can’t be racist.
Wow. Just Wow. He is racist because of his upbringing and his peers? So you mean his social class then.
He isn't against anyone for their race he supports muliticulturalism. His friend group contains non whites.
10 May 2019, 8:58 am
Yeah I got black friends I can't possibly be racist
You don't get born a racist Dan , something happens to install that hate , it is usually parents or peers.
10 May 2019, 9:01 am
SaveFerris wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Britain belongs to the British and we should be allowed to decide who can settle here.
Oh Dan! and you were doing so well
Are you saying this is untrue? Does the same apply for other countries?
10 May 2019, 9:16 am
10 May 2019, 9:20 am
10 May 2019, 9:28 am
SaveFerris wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Britain belongs to the British and we should be allowed to decide who can settle here.
Oh Dan! and you were doing so well ( deleted: an emoji that looked like Hitler waving a Swastika flag )
Yeah, national sovereignty is such a Nazi position. You realize that in most of the Muslim world, the prevailing position is that the Holocaust is a lie made up by the Jews, and if it actually happened it would be a good thing?
SaveFerris wrote:
He is racist due to his upbringing and peers
So are most Muslims. So it's not about race. So it's not racism.
Quote:
whether Tommy’s comments here are ‘racist’ or simply ‘hateful towards a large group of people with no adequate cause, based on stereotypes’ is somewhat irrelevant
I'm by no means a fan of the guy, but I've heard some of the stories of what he's been through, and I don't think "hateful for no adequate cause" is a reasonable descriptor of events.
And I get what you're saying with the dog-whistling thing, but it's evading one trap by leaping headfirst into another. An overt racist may say "non-whites are inferior, and we shouldn't allow them to immigrate here". A covert racist might say "here are some problems with immigration, we should reduce it", and you might call that a dog whistle. But a non-racist may also say "there are serious social and criminal problems that are caused by the sheer volume of immigrants and a severe lack of integration" and you'd dismiss that as a dog-whistle just as easily even if it's demonstrably true, and furthermore conclude that because something was percieved to be racist it must therefore follow that it's incorrect.
10 May 2019, 9:29 am
10 May 2019, 9:45 am
Wolfram wrote:
But a non-racist may also say "there are serious social and criminal problems that are caused by the sheer volume of immigrants and a severe lack of integration" and you'd dismiss that as a dog-whistle just as easily even if it's demonstrably true,
Ancient Chinese proverb: If you keep hearing dog whistles, you're the dog.
SaveFerris wrote:
There are no borders on WP
Haaahahahahaha. WP is surrounded by a Big Beautiful Wall, and when the State chucks people over that wall, they are so completely unpersoned that you're not even allowed to mention them any more.
10 May 2019, 9:48 am
Wolfram87 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Britain belongs to the British and we should be allowed to decide who can settle here.
Oh Dan! and you were doing so well
Yeah, national sovereignty is such a Nazi position. You realize that in most of the Muslim world, the prevailing position is that the Holocaust is a lie made up by the Jews, and if it actually happened it would be a good thing?
SaveFerris wrote:
He is racist due to his upbringing and peers
So are most Muslims. So it's not about race. So it's not racism.
Quote:
whether Tommy’s comments here are ‘racist’ or simply ‘hateful towards a large group of people with no adequate cause, based on stereotypes’ is somewhat irrelevant
I'm by no means a fan of the guy, but I've heard some of the stories of what he's been through, and I don't think "hateful for no adequate cause" is a reasonable descriptor of events.
And I get what you're saying with the dog-whistling thing, but it's evading one trap by leaping headfirst into another. An overt racist may say "non-whites are inferior, and we shouldn't allow them to immigrate here". A covert racist might say "here are some problems with immigration, we should reduce it", and you might call that a dog whistle. But a non-racist may also say "there are serious social and criminal problems that are caused by the sheer volume of immigrants and a severe lack of integration" and you'd dismiss that as a dog-whistle just as easily even if it's demonstrably true, and furthermore conclude that because something was percieved to be racist it must therefore follow that it's incorrect.
I'm all up for others to have a sensible debate. I don't really debate ( check my posts , I call people out on things that I think are BS, I don't like political debates ).
How am I supposed to perceive someone's comments when they defend someone who I believe to be a racist f**k , they echo their sentiments and use their rhetoric as their own. Maybe I'm wrong , I am autistic so my perception of people can be skewed i.e If it quacks like a duck. ( I could trawl through Dan's previous posts and find you examples of where my perception comes from I suppose but I think you get the idea of where I'm coming from ) .
And to be honest this is getting too much airtime , this exactly what Tommy would want.
10 May 2019, 9:56 am
Darmok wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
There are no borders on WP
Haaahahahahaha. WP is surrounded by a Big Beautiful Wall, and when the State chucks people over that wall, they are so completely unpersoned that you're not even allowed to mention them any more.
Sorry , I shall rephrase that , there are no borders inside WP , yes we have a wall around us ( I think Trump paid for it ) and try to keep out people who don't follow our regime and we bury those who don't adhere to the regime.
Yes I am a Nazi on the watchtower , but I do this for the majority of members here , I want a safe place for others and if I have to crack some skulls to achieve this - skulls will be cracked.
10 May 2019, 10:10 am
10 May 2019, 10:25 am
Wolfram87 wrote:
If you don't want to argue, that's fine. But know that there are plenty of principled and humanitarian reasons to not be particularly fond of Islam, and the knee-jerky cries of "Racist!" and "Nazi!" get very old very quickly.
I haven't called anyone a Nazi or Racist for not liking Islam ( or the extremist branch of it ) , you don't have to explain to me , I know it's a religion , I believe Islamophobia is a word created by fascists , used by cowards to manipulate morons ( we've discussed the origin of the quote - it wasn't Hitchens
)
10 May 2019, 10:31 am
10 May 2019, 10:40 am
10 May 2019, 4:44 pm
