Why do people still practice Magick?
Some magical practices and beliefs have inspired and informed various pieces of fantasy fiction (especially the Harry Potter series).
Maybe to some degree, and there might be perhaps be some more recent authors who've written characters who are in western mystery traditions and who studied those traditions in depth to give their character a realistic experience of them.
The topic is actual people practicing in 2019 and what they would or wouldn't do or deem credible (and to the OP's question effectively of 'Hasn't reductive materialism debunked all this?'), not fictional characters or Harry Potter magic which has never existed other than in fiction and maybe a few embarrassing spots in the early Renaissance.
Magical thinking if not downright superstition is present in most religions I’ve observed.
It’s not all that uncommon.
_________________
“The darkness shall be the light, and the stillness the dancing.”
— from Four Quartets by T.S. Eliot
techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,692
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
It’s not all that uncommon.
That's not the claim I'm making.
The claim I'm making is this: Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Raistlin in DragonLance vs. what people actually do in lodges or as solo modern practitioners, completely different things.
_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
techstepgenr8tion
Veteran
Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,692
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
One of the things I've found quite interesting for a while is what kinds of 'no go' zones our culture has in terms of thought and discussion. A primary example is in this area as it relates to models of the universe and consciousness.
For example if we take the notion seriously that 'Matter is unconscious' and apply it to everything in the universe then we have to admit to ourselves that our five senses, our memories, every story we tell ourselves, are complete fabrications because we're not really here and we're not really experiencing anything - we just 'think' we are.
Taking that a step further if we admit to ourselves that we are here and we are experiencing something but still adamantly claim that matter is essentially unconscious we're then in a place I like to call the Church of the Magic Neuron. It's a place where all matter is dead, however there's something magical/magickal about neurons. Unfortunately for as neat and complex as neurons might be they're just clusters of DNA, lipids, and various kinds of support structures like microtubules. There's nothing special about neurotransmitters, they're just molecules too.
So some scientists and philosophers who are in close with 'credible' science, like Thomas Nagel or Christof Koch, have decided that they're hanging their hat on some form of panpsychism, ie. the idea that matter is in some degree conscious or consciousness-capable at the atomic level (they'd just add, for credibility's sake) that it's impossible for a single atom to be conscious and that it needs a lot more complexity.
The problem with panpsychism - it's an emerging attempt to answer questions that couldn't be answered by reductive materialism by hanging their hat on atoms instead and unfortunately the more we study atoms the more we realize those are largely vapor as well, and then what - quarks or leptons are conscious?
This is part of why I've increasingly been a fan of neutral monism. It fits the situation better and points at a particular zone of inquiry rather than trying to hang its hat on some type of quantum process. Quantum biology is now of course a thing and people like Jim Al Khalili are constantly getting barraged by embarassing questions like 'Are you into divination?' when he gives lectures largely because the scientific community spent decades roundly beating up the idea that there are any quantum processes in consciousness and then, embarassingly, Jim was that guy who had to say 'No, we were wrong, birds have structures in their nervous systems that give them the capacity to read magnetic lines and follow them for their migration paths - and here's our experiments that prove as much'. Obviously quantum effects in bird brains or human brains don't answer any of the deep questions of what consciousness is, but it does show just how much stupidity, dogmatism, and ossification there is around the topic of what's possible or what could be at the root of consciousness.
And then, if I want to be a real obnoxious prick, I'll take this train of thought further and say - if consciousness is somewhere in the neutral monism vector, or in a Hillary Putnam type of functionalism where consciousness is what it does, does it make way more sense that our self-awareness as human beings not only wouldn't be special but wouldn't be particularly rare? Wouldn't it make way more sense if the universe is brimming with disconnected islands of self-awareness?
And if that model, which makes way more sense than reductive materialism, is correct - are we still saying that people are batshit crazy for believing that they can, through a sort of non-telecom type of setup, reach out to and contact broader forms of consciousness in the universe through invocation or evocation and have some degree of meaningful communication with them?
The popular answer would probably be 'Yes - because only stupid or crazy people believe that sort of thing. We know religion's BS and we know that the only reason anyone believes in that stuff at all is because they were raised by religion to believe it and if there was no religion it would go away'. It has nothing to do with any curiosity over what's actually true or not true but it has to be admitted - brow-beating and egotism are one heck of a social currency and you might as well not care what's true so long as what's not true is way more useful for social climbing and proving to other people with dogmatic opinions just how 'rational and with-it' you are.
_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
What? You really think that Game of Thrones was tired of being a popular show? Wrong baby! I was tired of it!
Damn!
I really enjoyed the last season , wonder what it would be like without your curse.
_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1
Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard
What? You really think that Game of Thrones was tired of being a popular show? Wrong baby! I was tired of it!
Damn!
I really enjoyed the last season , wonder what it would be like without your curse.
It would never end no matter how bad it got. Just like Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Spongebob Squarepants.
_________________
♡ The Hearts teach us to feel pleasure and pain.
◇ The Diamonds teach us to enjoy that we gain.
♧ The Clubs teach us to work the goals we aim.
♤ The Spades teach us to conquer all we claim.
What? You really think that Game of Thrones was tired of being a popular show? Wrong baby! I was tired of it!
Damn!
I really enjoyed the last season , wonder what it would be like without your curse.
It would never end no matter how bad it got. Just like Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Spongebob Squarepants.
I undid your curse!
Ice is back!
What? You really think that Game of Thrones was tired of being a popular show? Wrong baby! I was tired of it!
Damn!
I really enjoyed the last season , wonder what it would be like without your curse.
It would never end no matter how bad it got. Just like Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Spongebob Squarepants.
I undid your curse!
Ice is back!
_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1
Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard
Here's the tragic fate of King's Landing in a nutshell as best explained by Plankton from Spongebob Squarepants.
F is for fire that burns down the whole town!
U is for uranium.... bombs.
N is for No Survivors!
_________________
♡ The Hearts teach us to feel pleasure and pain.
◇ The Diamonds teach us to enjoy that we gain.
♧ The Clubs teach us to work the goals we aim.
♤ The Spades teach us to conquer all we claim.
funeralxempire
Veteran
Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 34,272
Location: Right over your left shoulder
I'm nicer than Pete, but I'm on a search to crush a milkbone;
I'm Everlasting; I melt Vanilla Ice like silicone.
_________________
There's no such thing as a free market.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.
What? You really think that Game of Thrones was tired of being a popular show? Wrong baby! I was tired of it!
Damn!
I really enjoyed the last season , wonder what it would be like without your curse.
It would never end no matter how bad it got. Just like Family Guy, The Simpsons, and Spongebob Squarepants.
I undid your curse!
Ice is back!
Yeah
Anyway...here is the long version:
Nobody commented on my Spongebob reference to King's Landing being burned to the ground... ![]()
_________________
♡ The Hearts teach us to feel pleasure and pain.
◇ The Diamonds teach us to enjoy that we gain.
♧ The Clubs teach us to work the goals we aim.
♤ The Spades teach us to conquer all we claim.
_________________
The mere fact that science may not yet adequately explain an object, event, or experience does not mean the immediate explanation should automatically default to a conspiratorial, extraterrestrial, paranormal, or supernatural cause.
At least in developed countries like the US we're not burning "stupid' innocent people alive at the stake for practicing "magic" like in the old days. Although that might change if Mike Pence were to ever replace Donald Trump as president...
I bet he would round up every wannabe witch, homosexual, and non-Christian in this country and have us all burned as heretics if he could. ![]()
_________________
♡ The Hearts teach us to feel pleasure and pain.
◇ The Diamonds teach us to enjoy that we gain.
♧ The Clubs teach us to work the goals we aim.
♤ The Spades teach us to conquer all we claim.
envirozentinel
Forum Moderator
Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Gender: Male
Posts: 17,226
Location: Keshron, Super-Zakhyria
He surely can't be that bad can he?
Is there any GoT character who bears similarities to Pence?
_________________
Why is a trailer behind a car but ahead of a movie?
my blog:
https://sentinel63.wordpress.com/
Is there any GoT character who bears similarities to Pence?
Maybe The Red Lady Milesandre? Or that guy in charge of The High Sparrows?


_________________
♡ The Hearts teach us to feel pleasure and pain.
◇ The Diamonds teach us to enjoy that we gain.
♧ The Clubs teach us to work the goals we aim.
♤ The Spades teach us to conquer all we claim.
I was going to comment but it included a spoiler so I didn't.
_________________
R Tape loading error, 0:1
Hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard

