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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2019, 10:03 am

"Is X superior to Y" is only half a question. Superior in terms of what?


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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03 Jun 2019, 10:04 am

I like cats better than I do people. :cat: Even though they're cruel to smaller animals like mice, lizards, and insects. :(


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Fnord
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03 Jun 2019, 10:06 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
I like cats better than I do people. :cat: Even though they're cruel to smaller animals like mice, lizards, and insects.
I like people, too, even though they're cruel to animals like cats, dogs, mice, lizards and insects...


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SaveFerris
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03 Jun 2019, 10:06 am

Is X more superior than Y because you use more ink to write one or is Y superior as you need less ink :twisted:


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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2019, 10:06 am

Cruelty implies malice. Most of the things cats do that we misinterpret as cruelty has a fairly reasonable explanation.


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dyadiccounterpoint
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03 Jun 2019, 10:07 am

To the comment lamenting the vilification of "merit based" considerations, there is a good reason for this.

Advantage snowballs to those who receive the benefits of generational abundance. Those born into generational disadvantage do not receive these benefits, which are genetic in addition to being socioeconomic. A lot of these advantages have to do with impulse control, emotional regulation in general, and long term resource management skills. It's not just "race" where one sees these distinctions.

Therefore, a "merit" based admission process will by definition benefit the most advantaged historical groups. Someone who comes from an environment lacking significant stress, with quality education, from a mother with good prenatal care, with good health access themselves, and from a culture/ethos of effective resource management will outcompete (probably according to statistical analysis) someone who does not. Considering that groups tend to organize themselves into communities of individuals like themselves, this has a large implication on society at large in terms of creating pockets of generational failure and success.

It's easy to call foul when examining a single instance of a more accomplished Caucasian being turned down in favor of a less advantaged ethnic minority, but it's less easy to tolerate the perpetuation of demographic disadvantage.

From a cynical perspective, an "affirmative action" societal model makes sense in terms of equalizing advantage. It simply won't do to have vast swaths of the population breeding individuals who are statistically likely to be poor, ignorant, and incapable of operating intelligently in the political arena for their own interests. This creates conflict in society as groups diverge from their sense of shared interests and motivations.


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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2019, 10:08 am

SaveFerris wrote:
Is X more superior than Y because you use more ink to write one or is Y superior as you need less ink :twisted:


Well, Y is more efficient because you produce a whole letter with less resource, but X is more substantial.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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03 Jun 2019, 10:09 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
Cruelty implies malice. Most of the things cats do that we misinterpret as cruelty has a fairly reasonable explanation.

Not really. Cats don't even eat a lot of the critters they kill. They seem to torment them for fun.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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03 Jun 2019, 10:11 am

Fnord wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
I like cats better than I do people. :cat: Even though they're cruel to smaller animals like mice, lizards, and insects.
I like people, too, even though they're cruel to animals like cats, dogs, mice, lizards and insects...

A human is more dangerous to me than a housecat. They don't just kill, they decieve and trick other humans too. That's why I don't like people.


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SaveFerris
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03 Jun 2019, 10:12 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Is X more superior than Y because you use more ink to write one or is Y superior as you need less ink :twisted:


Well, Y is more efficient because you produce a whole letter with less resource, but X is more substantial.


Efficiency V's Substantialness

Where shall I go with this :scratch:

Is that a huge handlebar mustache in your avatar ?


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Fnord
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03 Jun 2019, 10:13 am

Sure, then ... let's be fair and encourage people who will not perform to take up space in classrooms and the workplace.

Better yet, let's have education, employment, and housing totally dependent on a lottery system, with equal probability given to each individual in need of education, employment, or housing -- that will be exceedingly fair, since no one would have any advantage due to wealth or ethnicity. Just be prepared to get some racist, sexist, and ignorant doofus selected by lottery as president.

:oops: Oops! Too late!


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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2019, 10:15 am

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
Cruelty implies malice. Most of the things cats do that we misinterpret as cruelty has a fairly reasonable explanation.

Not really. Cats don't even eat a lot of the critters they kill. They seem to torment them for fun.


Yes really. This is only true for house-cats. This is a backfiring of the cat having both a hunting instinct and a steady and reliable source of food which requires from it no effort. This is especially true if it grew up with that. the cat knows it must hunt, but it's not associating hunting with acquiring food, and thus once it's caught its prey it has no idea what to do with it other than not letting it get away, and just kind of plays with it until it inadvertently kills is or it manages to get away.


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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2019, 10:17 am

SaveFerris wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Is X more superior than Y because you use more ink to write one or is Y superior as you need less ink :twisted:


Well, Y is more efficient because you produce a whole letter with less resource, but X is more substantial.


Efficiency V's Substantialness

Where shall I go with this :scratch:

Is that a huge handlebar mustache in your avatar ?


For the purposes of this discussion, you may imagine me twirling it.


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SaveFerris
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03 Jun 2019, 10:19 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
SaveFerris wrote:
Is X more superior than Y because you use more ink to write one or is Y superior as you need less ink :twisted:


Well, Y is more efficient because you produce a whole letter with less resource, but X is more substantial.


Efficiency V's Substantialness

Where shall I go with this :scratch:

Is that a huge handlebar mustache in your avatar ?


For the purposes of this discussion, you may imagine me twirling it.


Regarding the twirling , are you using your finger , fingers or an implement like a pen , pencil etc


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Wolfram87
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03 Jun 2019, 10:22 am

The corners of my mouth, so my hands are free to do that finger pyramid thing in front of my face like a proper villain. It's really a sight to behold.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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03 Jun 2019, 10:22 am

I'm using a finger right now. Can you guys guess which one? :P


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The Clubs teach us to work the goals we aim.
The Spades teach us to conquer all we claim.