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funeralxempire
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07 Jun 2020, 7:13 pm

sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Drake wrote:
I wonder if that might discourage blacks from joining the force? Since the black neighbourhood typically has the most crime, if they were always the ones sent to police it, their job would be considerably more difficult and dangerous.


Oh my freaking god! Do you realize how racist this sounds?

I can only imagine that people who think like this are the exact reason why these protests need to happen.


No, those people would prefer to hire cops who live outside of the region, have no connection to the community and will happily use overwhelming force against people they don't identify at all with.


So you want segregation of the police force and communities? Democrats sure do seem to love segregation :roll:
Segregation of the south was democrat run and stopped by republicans. No they call for only black cops to be allowed in black communities.
Can’t wait for the black cops only and white cops only signs to go up


I never suggested segregation, I'm calling for community policing. Just because you're too dishonest to understand the difference between the two doesn't mean I'm calling for what you're insisting I'm calling for.


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07 Jun 2020, 7:22 pm

what happens if a officer is mixed race ..?


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funeralxempire
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07 Jun 2020, 7:28 pm

Jakki wrote:
what happens if a officer is mixed race ..?


Their race isn't relevant, you hire people from the community they will be assigned to instead of bringing in people who need to commute several hours every day.


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


ASPartOfMe
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07 Jun 2020, 8:03 pm

Minneapolis City Council members intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department

Quote:
Nine members of the Minneapolis City Council on Sunday announced they intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department following the police killing of George Floyd.

"We committed to dismantling policing as we know it in the city of Minneapolis and to rebuild with our community a new model of public safety that actually keeps our community safe," Council President Lisa Bender told CNN.

With nine votes the city council would have a veto-proof supermajority of the council's 13 members, Bender said.
Sunday's pledge was an acknowledgment that the current system is not working, Bender said.

"(We need) to listen, especially to our black leaders, to our communities of color, for whom policing is not working and to really let the solutions lie in our community," she said.

Pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN she was looking to shift police funding toward community-based strategies and that the city council would discuss how to replace the current police department.
"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

Bender and other council members analyzed the nature of 911 calls by constituents, she said, and found most were for mental health services, health and EMT and fire services.


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07 Jun 2020, 8:24 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Minneapolis City Council members intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department
Quote:
Nine members of the Minneapolis City Council on Sunday announced they intend to defund and dismantle the city's police department following the police killing of George Floyd.

"We committed to dismantling policing as we know it in the city of Minneapolis and to rebuild with our community a new model of public safety that actually keeps our community safe," Council President Lisa Bender told CNN.

With nine votes the city council would have a veto-proof supermajority of the council's 13 members, Bender said.
Sunday's pledge was an acknowledgment that the current system is not working, Bender said.

"(We need) to listen, especially to our black leaders, to our communities of color, for whom policing is not working and to really let the solutions lie in our community," she said.

Pressed for details on what the dismantling might look like, Bender told CNN she was looking to shift police funding toward community-based strategies and that the city council would discuss how to replace the current police department.
"The idea of having no police department is certainly not in the short term," she added.

Bender and other council members analyzed the nature of 911 calls by constituents, she said, and found most were for mental health services, health and EMT and fire services.


I honestly don't think it's a bad thing to try something different. I think as long as the contingency plan would be if citizens were met with increased crime, especially violent crime, the trial should be immediately stopped.

The council members has a point and I believe it's true that most 911 calls are medical and mental health in nature. Now I see where the "social workers and EMTs" comment by them previously is coming from. As long as they think this out carefully, I say go for it and see if it works. It might, and if it does and the community is better for it, then it was good to try something different.

However, if it doesn't work and there is an increase in arson, vandalism and destruction of public property, then I don't think a cent of state taxpayer money should go toward fixing, or potentially perpetually fixing such damage in the city of Minneapolis. If they want to try something new for their city, more power to them; the rest of the state should have no part in paying toward any expense if it doesn't work.



sly279
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07 Jun 2020, 8:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Drake wrote:
I wonder if that might discourage blacks from joining the force? Since the black neighbourhood typically has the most crime, if they were always the ones sent to police it, their job would be considerably more difficult and dangerous.


Oh my freaking god! Do you realize how racist this sounds?

I can only imagine that people who think like this are the exact reason why these protests need to happen.


No, those people would prefer to hire cops who live outside of the region, have no connection to the community and will happily use overwhelming force against people they don't identify at all with.


So you want segregation of the police force and communities? Democrats sure do seem to love segregation :roll:
Segregation of the south was democrat run and stopped by republicans. No they call for only black cops to be allowed in black communities.
Can’t wait for the black cops only and white cops only signs to go up


I never suggested segregation, I'm calling for community policing. Just because you're too dishonest to understand the difference between the two doesn't mean I'm calling for what you're insisting I'm calling for.


The city is the community so they hire people from the city.
Suggesting that areas of the city only be policed by poeople of w certain race is segregation.

Seen the idea floated on this site thst only black cops should be allowed to police black people wnd so on for every race.
That’s segregation. I don’t think keep the races separate will solve apthe problem of police abuse.
Stats wise police abuse happens more to white people. It happens to all races this idea that it’ll all be fine as long as a it’s a black cop abusing black people is crazy
Not to mention while some cities have mostly black areas not everyone living in Those areas are black.

The other issue you have is when people get hired as cops, they make more money, often enough to move to the suburbs. So should we force them to live in the poor areas they came from and deny them improving their situation?


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sly279
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07 Jun 2020, 8:43 pm

If they do what other cities done they won’t get rid of police just pay another city or county so do it for them and since apparently all cops are racist, it won’t solve anything. The county or city having to cover it will likely hire all the old cops, repaint the cop cars and go about business same as usual.

If the council really wanted change they’d mandate reforms, but they’d mean working.


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sly279
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07 Jun 2020, 8:47 pm

They expect the same EMTs that won’t go to certain parts of the city without police escort to now handle the job of police. I see an emt and firemen strike in future


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07 Jun 2020, 8:54 pm

Unless they've changed it since I lived in Minneapolis in the 1990s, true medical only calls had what seemed like a redundancy to me. If I person had chest pains for example and called 911, the Fire Department would respond and an actual fire engine (not a ladder truck) would go to the scene. Then an ambulance would also be called and would show up to take the person to the ER. I didn't understand why there was always that kind of duplication.



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07 Jun 2020, 8:56 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You may consider his comments racist,
But is it accurate?
"The truth is the Truth,
No matter where it may lie".
And,
"The Truth is never politically incorrect,
People make it so."

Statistics indicate there is a higher level of "black" crime in certain areas.
This is the case here in Australia, in some areas also.
Pretending reality doesn't exist is hardly rational.
Can you explain to me why you find the truth so threatening?


And something is not necessarily true just because it is politically incorrect.

And those reasons are nothing about race, but generally socioeconomic problems that were likely born from racist programs in the past, and current, and only made worse by further perpetuating racial stereotypes such as being more dangerous. That it is not the fact that it has actually been the harsh policing in black areas has created larger mistrust of law enforcement which creates these statistics of more crime.

Pepe wrote:
He is following a narrative, I believe.
If so, that interferes with his objectivity.
My best guess is the problem is his. <shrug>


You know, you think that your clever, but you are just acting like a word that I can't use because Americans are too sensitive to it.
From most of my interactions with you it is you who are following a narrative that blocks your objectivity. You have your little bubble where you think that you can explain away the problems in the world as the problems of those groups, listening to Andrew Bolt who scaremongers over his venomous beliefs against minorities like he does not actually add to the problem of creating conflict. And then if things get too real you make jokes about everyone like you are above it all, because there is no way you want to admit that maybe you could be wrong in a way that could mean rhetoric you take part in may make the world a worse place.

But sure, it is my problem.


Damn! 8O



funeralxempire
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07 Jun 2020, 8:59 pm

sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Drake wrote:
I wonder if that might discourage blacks from joining the force? Since the black neighbourhood typically has the most crime, if they were always the ones sent to police it, their job would be considerably more difficult and dangerous.


Oh my freaking god! Do you realize how racist this sounds?

I can only imagine that people who think like this are the exact reason why these protests need to happen.


No, those people would prefer to hire cops who live outside of the region, have no connection to the community and will happily use overwhelming force against people they don't identify at all with.


So you want segregation of the police force and communities? Democrats sure do seem to love segregation :roll:
Segregation of the south was democrat run and stopped by republicans. No they call for only black cops to be allowed in black communities.
Can’t wait for the black cops only and white cops only signs to go up


I never suggested segregation, I'm calling for community policing. Just because you're too dishonest to understand the difference between the two doesn't mean I'm calling for what you're insisting I'm calling for.


The city is the community so they hire people from the city.
Suggesting that areas of the city only be policed by poeople of w certain race is segregation.

Seen the idea floated on this site thst only black cops should be allowed to police black people wnd so on for every race.
That’s segregation. I don’t think keep the races separate will solve apthe problem of police abuse.
Stats wise police abuse happens more to white people. It happens to all races this idea that it’ll all be fine as long as a it’s a black cop abusing black people is crazy
Not to mention while some cities have mostly black areas not everyone living in Those areas are black.

The other issue you have is when people get hired as cops, they make more money, often enough to move to the suburbs. So should we force them to live in the poor areas they came from and deny them improving their situation?


If a community is mostly black, it would make sense that the police force might reflect that. That's not the same as segregation and you're flat-out dishonest to pretend otherwise Sly.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


Pepe
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07 Jun 2020, 9:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Pepe wrote:
You may consider his comments racist,
But is it accurate?
"The truth is the Truth,
No matter where it may lie".
And,
"The Truth is never politically incorrect,
People make it so."

Statistics indicate there is a higher level of "black" crime in certain areas.
This is the case here in Australia, in some areas also.
Pretending reality doesn't exist is hardly rational.
Can you explain to me why you find the truth so threatening?


And something is not necessarily true just because it is politically incorrect.

And those reasons are nothing about race, but generally socioeconomic problems that were likely born from racist programs in the past, and current, and only made worse by further perpetuating racial stereotypes such as being more dangerous. That it is not the fact that it has actually been the harsh policing in black areas has created larger mistrust of law enforcement which creates these statistics of more crime.

Pepe wrote:
He is following a narrative, I believe.
If so, that interferes with his objectivity.
My best guess is the problem is his. <shrug>


You know, you think that your clever, but you are just acting like a word that I can't use because Americans are too sensitive to it.
From most of my interactions with you it is you who are following a narrative that blocks your objectivity. You have your little bubble where you think that you can explain away the problems in the world as the problems of those groups, listening to Andrew Bolt who scaremongers over his venomous beliefs against minorities like he does not actually add to the problem of creating conflict. And then if things get too real you make jokes about everyone like you are above it all, because there is no way you want to admit that maybe you could be wrong in a way that could mean rhetoric you take part in may make the world a worse place.

But sure, it is my problem.


Pepe's also an Aussie, if you call him a c**t he'll just assume you mean a good bloke.


Reported! :evil:
Joke. :mrgreen: :wink:

Why do you lefties, not you here, get so emotional about everyfink? <chuckle>



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07 Jun 2020, 9:22 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Jakki wrote:
what happens if a officer is mixed race ..?


Their race isn't relevant, you hire people from the community they will be assigned to instead of bringing in people who need to commute several hours every day.


Why should police be any different from other professions?

If your church needs a new preacher, do you only consider preachers that already live in the community? If your local hospital needs a vascular surgeon, do they only look at the local community? If a company needs a software developer, should they only hire from the local community?

It seems to me that limiting your hiring to the local community will likely result in mediocrity. That's not very smart.



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07 Jun 2020, 10:17 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Why should police be any different from other professions?


Because they are not like any other profession. The local pizza guy is not stepping on the necks of black men in a government sanctioned that an onlooker could not have done anything about, because the pizza guy could have then killed that person and say they were justified. Security guards are allowed to carry guns, and in many cases not even stop shoplifters. A preacher is not a legal representative of the law in that community. A vascular surgeon is not able to take discretion on causing violence on any random person they see pass by. A software developer's personal politics on things like race are going to have little impact of the community they are in.

I can see that the ideas of requiring people of a community to police themselves can seem very limiting, but there is serious problems that are not getting fixed while police are both treated as above the law and judged by a lower standard than the people they are charged with protecting.


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funeralxempire
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07 Jun 2020, 10:24 pm

kokopelli wrote:
It seems to me that limiting your hiring to the local community will likely result in mediocrity. That's not very smart.


Why would locals from black majority communities be more likely to be mediocre?
How could they be worse than the current situation for these communities? Will they still behave like an occupying force?


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


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08 Jun 2020, 12:51 am

New York plans to move some police funding to youth and social services

Quote:
New York City will move some of its funding from the New York Police Department to youth and social services, Mayor Bill De Blasio said on Sunday.

His announcement comes as discussions grow around the country about defunding police forces, with some activists calling on city officials to invest more of the city's budget in communities, especially marginalized ones where much of the policing occurs.

"These will be the first of many steps my Administration will take over the next 18 months to rebuild a fairer City that profoundly addresses injustice and disparity," de Blasio said in a statement.

The city would only reallocate funding in a way that would ensure the city would still remain safe, de Blasio said at a press conference.

"While we have taken many steps to reform policing in this city, there is clearly more work to do to strengthen trust between officers and the New Yorkers they serve," de Blasio said.

De Blasio said New York City would find "find significant savings in the NYPD budget" that will go toward "youth development and social services for communities of color."

Going forward, the city will move street vendor enforcement out of the NYPD's responsibilities, so they can focus on "the real drivers of crime," the mayor said.


Yep, it's really happening. Everything we have discussed in this forum about NT's hive mind making choices based on emotions.


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