The implications of "All Lives Matter"

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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 1:22 pm

warrier120 wrote:

It's clear that when people say "all lives matter", they leave out certain groups (ex: people with disabilities, POC, LGTBQ+ community).

My question today is based off what I've seen lately: What implications, if any, are there behind the use of the phrase "all lives matter"? In other words, what are the philosophical and psychological overtones of the way people use the phrase? I want to look a little beyond the obvious today and see what truly lies beneath the surface.

Has the word all been redefined lately?

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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 1:25 pm

cyberdad wrote:

I saw a good analogy for why "all lives matter" doesn't work.

If a black person's house is on fire and they want a fire truck then its like a white person on the same street saying "why should they get a fire truck when my house matters also?"

Black person says "but your house is not on fire? mine is?"

White person replies "Yeah but why should your house get the attention when my house matters also"

Black person says "but hang on, your house is fine? mine is on fire??"

etc etc...

Better would be the whole neighborhood is on fire but so,e group insists they only put out the black peoples houses cause black lives matter.

Police brutality kills more twice as many white people then blacks. It also kills a lot more Hispanics. But their lives don’t matter cause they aren’t black.

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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 1:32 pm

Brictoria wrote:

Magna wrote:

HeroOfHyrule wrote:

The main issue I've seen with "all lives matter" is that it's consistently used as a dismissal towards the experiences of black people and the violence that is directed towards them. When people say "black lives matter" they're not saying "only black lives matter", they mean "black lives matter, too". People are misconstruing that and framing it wrong, often by willful ignorance.

^ This is an excellent point. I would say that most people would agree with and support "black lives matter too". Absolutely. Who says it's too late to change the saying for clarification? I agree with the statement and support the statement 100%. "Black lives matter too.".

The problem is that "Black lives matter" is an exclusionary statement, giving the impression that the people protesting only care about "balck" lives.

"Black lives matter too", however, is an inclusionary statement, indicating that "black" lives matter, but no more, nor less, than any other life.

"All lives matter" and "Black lives matter too" should be the same thing, being inclusive of all, not exclusive of all except one racial group as "Black lives matter" appears to be.

It really should be Only Certian Black Lives Matter
Or OCBLM
black cop? You’re life doesn’t matter
Black fireman? Your life doesn’t matter
Black Vet? Your life doesn’t matter
Black conservative? Life doesn’t matter.
Only black people killed by white cops life’s seem to matter to them
No one called for justice for the black cop killed or for the ex 77 old black cop murdered.
They don’t seem to care when black people kill other black people.
Only when it’s a white person who killed black persons.
If all the cops who killed Floyd were black, i dont know if this would have happen.

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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 1:37 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

Simple rule: "Black" is the only word that should come before "Lives Matter".

So if a group starts a Hispanic lives matter to protest the police abuse against Hispanics. You would tell them they’re racist ?
Oh but then you would be called a racist for hating undocumented immigrants.
Oh man being a leftist must be hard.

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sly279
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01 Jul 2020, 1:46 pm

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01 Jul 2020, 7:35 pm

Magna wrote:

Bradleigh wrote:

Magna wrote:

In the same way that the "too" or "also" is apparently implied although I've yet to see anything officially states as such for BLM.

And I have never seen that the initials of KFC also say they have delicious chips.

Those that perceive "All lives matter" to imply something other than or in addition to what is literally stated (ie bad) are the same people who state that the "too"/"also" is implied when it's not literally stated (ie good). I love it.

damm NT's

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01 Jul 2020, 7:46 pm

sly279 wrote:

Read my response to Magna Sly. BLM is based on a perception by black Americans they are not safe to walk the streets. if they are distressed about their perceived treatment is unjust then that's the pivot which their movement revolves around. it's easy to disqualify their concerns as it doesn't impact on you or me but you would think that after 150 years following the end of slavery you would ask why they are still marching protesting they don't feel like equal members of society?

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01 Jul 2020, 9:03 pm

sly279 wrote:

Has the word all been redefined lately?

It has already been said and you should know that BLM was made specifically because a systematic problem against black people. All Lives Matter was used as an attack against BLM to pretend that they were being racist and to minimise their causes.

If you keep failing to understand this simple concept I am going to think very little of you.

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01 Jul 2020, 9:09 pm

sly279 wrote:

Did... did you just seriously post this graph that does not take into consideration the percentage of the population that each group makes up so that you can pretend that white people are more likely to be killed despite being a significant amount of the population at almost 50%?

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01 Jul 2020, 9:13 pm

Fnord wrote:

warrier120 wrote:

It's clear that when people say "all lives matter", they leave out certain groups (ex: people with disabilities, POC, LGTBQ+ community).

Evidence, please?

warrier120 wrote:

My question today is based off what I've seen lately: What implications, if any, are there behind the use of the phrase "all lives matter"?

"All" = inclusion, implies "every".
"Lives" = plural of life, implies "living beings".
"Matter" = importance, significance.
"All lives matter" = "Every living thing is significant".

warrier120 wrote:

In other words, what are the philosophical and psychological overtones of the way people use the phrase?

Objectively: None.
Subjectively: Perception depends on both external context and internal reaction to previous experience.

warrier120 wrote:

I want to look a little beyond the obvious today and see what truly lies beneath the surface.

Three little words. No further meaning. Objective definitions only.

In my opinion, you are reading too much into the phrase "All Lives Matter" -- much more than is actually expressed by the established definitions of the words themselves. "All Lives Matter" has been declared by some to be racist, sexist, and even a call to social rebellion. It is none of these. It is only a statement of ethics. Nothing more.

This post makes you seem intentionally obtuse.

All lives matter is a phrase used by white people to re-assert their racial dominance, authority, and supremacy while being dismissive of black lives matter.

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01 Jul 2020, 9:16 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

All lives matter is a phrase used by white people to re-assert their racial dominance, authority, and supremacy while being dismissive of black lives matter.

Wrong.

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01 Jul 2020, 9:24 pm

Magna wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

All lives matter is a phrase used by white people to re-assert their racial dominance, authority, and supremacy while being dismissive of black lives matter.

Wrong.

I would say that it has instead either been an attempt to change the narrative because they don't like the focus on black issues, covering it up with a virtue signal meant to be dismissive to the movement, or actually buying into that virtue signalling and altered narrative that those part of BLM are somehow against the protection of non-black lives.

Saying that All Lives Matter should not in the very least replace BLM, but if it was actually done in good faith it would signal boost BLM while wanting the same thing for other groups. But that has not been how it has been used, the majority of ALM has been used to discredit BLM, people have been buying into a racist dog whistle.

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01 Jul 2020, 9:37 pm

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01 Jul 2020, 9:39 pm

goldfish21 wrote:

Yeah I don't think he gets it...

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01 Jul 2020, 9:45 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Yeah statistics have been weaponised against BLM for a while, the other one is that more blacks are in jail because they are more prone to criminal behavior, This was debunked long ago as blacks are more likely to be incarcerated for the same crime as whites based on police and the courts. Also black people are more likely to be lower SES where there is a known correlation between poverty and crime.
Of course that's not going to stop the creation of "whiteopias" outside of major cities where gated communities become a refuge for the white flight from cities.

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01 Jul 2020, 10:02 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

Magna wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

All lives matter is a phrase used by white people to re-assert their racial dominance, authority, and supremacy while being dismissive of black lives matter.

Wrong.

Let's throw a third possibility in the mix that's already been discussed in what is becoming a circular argument:

Instead of All Lives Matter being a dismissive virtue signal with the intention of shifting focus away from black issues or that BLM is anti non-black lives, perhaps people who believe all lives matter believe...all lives matter in that black lives matter too or also or equally.

This All Lives Matter in comparison to Black Lives Matter ("too" or "also" regarded as implied by some and questioned as such by others) is now a circular argument here like a perpetual motion machine.

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