Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
05 Nov 2020, 4:20 pm
Nades wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Nades wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
In the West you’re much more likely to be killed by a far-right extremist than by an Islamic extremist.
So when Muslims come to the West, or Westerners convert, the majority of them do not engage in terrorism or anything resembling it.
If you read crazy stuff on Arabic Twitter then that’s one thing, but in practice, the Muslims in the West are broadly well-integrated and almost entirely non-violent. You can argue lots of different causes - people taking on the values of the culture they live in, prosperity creating liberals, or the Muslims who choose to migrate to the West generally also being Muslims who already admire Western values (a self-selection effect). But bluntly, your doomsaying is ignorant of what life is like in the West.
So when Muslims come to the West, or Westerners convert, the majority of them do not engage in terrorism or anything resembling it.
If you read crazy stuff on Arabic Twitter then that’s one thing, but in practice, the Muslims in the West are broadly well-integrated and almost entirely non-violent. You can argue lots of different causes - people taking on the values of the culture they live in, prosperity creating liberals, or the Muslims who choose to migrate to the West generally also being Muslims who already admire Western values (a self-selection effect). But bluntly, your doomsaying is ignorant of what life is like in the West.
Then why many of the Muslim terrorists joining ISIS were living in Europe? And some were even born there.
It is estimated that 850-900 British nationals went to Syria or Iraq to fight for or be trained by radical groups.
In the UK there are 2.8 million Muslims (2011 census). So that’s about 0.03% of the Muslim population. Is that more or less than half?
In France, about twice as many citizens joined ISIS. Let’s say that’s 2,000. There are an estimated 3.35 million French Muslims. So that’s about 0.06%. Is that more or less than half?
In Belgium, 632 people joined ISIS. A low estimate for the number of Muslims in Belgium is 460,000. Is 632 more or less than half of 460,000?
In the Netherlands, 260 people joined ISIS. There are 870,000 Muslims in the Netherlands.
In Germany, 1,060 people joined ISIS. 1,060 is half of 2,120. Do you think there are more or less than 2,120 Muslims in Germany? There are 4.7m. So 1,060 is about 0.02%.
In Sweden, 300 people joined ISIS or Al-Nusra. There are 810,000 Muslims in Sweden.
You get the point.
Well, again... these represent the tip of the iceberg - by iceberg I mean a huge social/intellectual problem.
Those 0.02/0.03% are brainwashed by people and institutions who are way more than 0.02%. You don't become willing of decapitating people in an overnight.
So what's the healthy percentage of psychopaths in any given society? There should be a study on that.
The percentages of Muslims who actually commit attacks are low, but the percentage who are against Western values are much higher. Almost a quarter want sharia law and 4% sympathise with suicide bombers.
It's those people who corrupt the mind of those who do attack and build a fairly large springboard for others to become unhinged.
I would say it's about time something is done about it. I think the worst quarter should be deported. It's fair to say that wanting to introduce sharia law is a fair cutoff to when I legitimately want someone removed from the community so about 25% seems right.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law
To be honest the view that we should deport people for their views alone is one that is completely at odds with Western values. Are you going to deport yourself?
Views of violent ideology or wanting to implement sharia law are not western values so what's wrong with not wanting people who support them out of the West? Deportation isn't against Western values too. It happens all the time to ensure the out stability but not often enough or against the wrong people.
I would much rather a Romanian ex convict who served a year in prison who now works hard in a full time job and is overall a chill guy any day over someone with a clean criminal record who sympathises with suicide bombers or wants to implement abhorrent laws.
Sure mass deportation represents western values... the dark side of western values that we've been trying to purge since 1945.
05 Nov 2020, 4:27 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Nades wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Nades wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
In the West you’re much more likely to be killed by a far-right extremist than by an Islamic extremist.
So when Muslims come to the West, or Westerners convert, the majority of them do not engage in terrorism or anything resembling it.
If you read crazy stuff on Arabic Twitter then that’s one thing, but in practice, the Muslims in the West are broadly well-integrated and almost entirely non-violent. You can argue lots of different causes - people taking on the values of the culture they live in, prosperity creating liberals, or the Muslims who choose to migrate to the West generally also being Muslims who already admire Western values (a self-selection effect). But bluntly, your doomsaying is ignorant of what life is like in the West.
So when Muslims come to the West, or Westerners convert, the majority of them do not engage in terrorism or anything resembling it.
If you read crazy stuff on Arabic Twitter then that’s one thing, but in practice, the Muslims in the West are broadly well-integrated and almost entirely non-violent. You can argue lots of different causes - people taking on the values of the culture they live in, prosperity creating liberals, or the Muslims who choose to migrate to the West generally also being Muslims who already admire Western values (a self-selection effect). But bluntly, your doomsaying is ignorant of what life is like in the West.
Then why many of the Muslim terrorists joining ISIS were living in Europe? And some were even born there.
It is estimated that 850-900 British nationals went to Syria or Iraq to fight for or be trained by radical groups.
In the UK there are 2.8 million Muslims (2011 census). So that’s about 0.03% of the Muslim population. Is that more or less than half?
In France, about twice as many citizens joined ISIS. Let’s say that’s 2,000. There are an estimated 3.35 million French Muslims. So that’s about 0.06%. Is that more or less than half?
In Belgium, 632 people joined ISIS. A low estimate for the number of Muslims in Belgium is 460,000. Is 632 more or less than half of 460,000?
In the Netherlands, 260 people joined ISIS. There are 870,000 Muslims in the Netherlands.
In Germany, 1,060 people joined ISIS. 1,060 is half of 2,120. Do you think there are more or less than 2,120 Muslims in Germany? There are 4.7m. So 1,060 is about 0.02%.
In Sweden, 300 people joined ISIS or Al-Nusra. There are 810,000 Muslims in Sweden.
You get the point.
Well, again... these represent the tip of the iceberg - by iceberg I mean a huge social/intellectual problem.
Those 0.02/0.03% are brainwashed by people and institutions who are way more than 0.02%. You don't become willing of decapitating people in an overnight.
So what's the healthy percentage of psychopaths in any given society? There should be a study on that.
The percentages of Muslims who actually commit attacks are low, but the percentage who are against Western values are much higher. Almost a quarter want sharia law and 4% sympathise with suicide bombers.
It's those people who corrupt the mind of those who do attack and build a fairly large springboard for others to become unhinged.
I would say it's about time something is done about it. I think the worst quarter should be deported. It's fair to say that wanting to introduce sharia law is a fair cutoff to when I legitimately want someone removed from the community so about 25% seems right.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law
To be honest the view that we should deport people for their views alone is one that is completely at odds with Western values. Are you going to deport yourself?
Views of violent ideology or wanting to implement sharia law are not western values so what's wrong with not wanting people who support them out of the West? Deportation isn't against Western values too. It happens all the time to ensure the out stability but not often enough or against the wrong people.
I would much rather a Romanian ex convict who served a year in prison who now works hard in a full time job and is overall a chill guy any day over someone with a clean criminal record who sympathises with suicide bombers or wants to implement abhorrent laws.
Sure mass deportation represents western values... the dark side of western values that we've been trying to purge since 1945.
The people who were purged in WW2 did A. Nothing to deserve it and B. They were killed in the most horrific of ways.
Deporting people who want to implement sharia law and support suicide bombings and the killing of millions of Jews are not comparable.
I also think that it's perfectly reasonable not to be forced to live around people who enjoy watching us get blown up and want to force us to live under Islamic law.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 49,751
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
05 Nov 2020, 5:51 pm
Nades wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Nades wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Nades wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
In the West you’re much more likely to be killed by a far-right extremist than by an Islamic extremist.
So when Muslims come to the West, or Westerners convert, the majority of them do not engage in terrorism or anything resembling it.
If you read crazy stuff on Arabic Twitter then that’s one thing, but in practice, the Muslims in the West are broadly well-integrated and almost entirely non-violent. You can argue lots of different causes - people taking on the values of the culture they live in, prosperity creating liberals, or the Muslims who choose to migrate to the West generally also being Muslims who already admire Western values (a self-selection effect). But bluntly, your doomsaying is ignorant of what life is like in the West.
So when Muslims come to the West, or Westerners convert, the majority of them do not engage in terrorism or anything resembling it.
If you read crazy stuff on Arabic Twitter then that’s one thing, but in practice, the Muslims in the West are broadly well-integrated and almost entirely non-violent. You can argue lots of different causes - people taking on the values of the culture they live in, prosperity creating liberals, or the Muslims who choose to migrate to the West generally also being Muslims who already admire Western values (a self-selection effect). But bluntly, your doomsaying is ignorant of what life is like in the West.
Then why many of the Muslim terrorists joining ISIS were living in Europe? And some were even born there.
It is estimated that 850-900 British nationals went to Syria or Iraq to fight for or be trained by radical groups.
In the UK there are 2.8 million Muslims (2011 census). So that’s about 0.03% of the Muslim population. Is that more or less than half?
In France, about twice as many citizens joined ISIS. Let’s say that’s 2,000. There are an estimated 3.35 million French Muslims. So that’s about 0.06%. Is that more or less than half?
In Belgium, 632 people joined ISIS. A low estimate for the number of Muslims in Belgium is 460,000. Is 632 more or less than half of 460,000?
In the Netherlands, 260 people joined ISIS. There are 870,000 Muslims in the Netherlands.
In Germany, 1,060 people joined ISIS. 1,060 is half of 2,120. Do you think there are more or less than 2,120 Muslims in Germany? There are 4.7m. So 1,060 is about 0.02%.
In Sweden, 300 people joined ISIS or Al-Nusra. There are 810,000 Muslims in Sweden.
You get the point.
Well, again... these represent the tip of the iceberg - by iceberg I mean a huge social/intellectual problem.
Those 0.02/0.03% are brainwashed by people and institutions who are way more than 0.02%. You don't become willing of decapitating people in an overnight.
So what's the healthy percentage of psychopaths in any given society? There should be a study on that.
The percentages of Muslims who actually commit attacks are low, but the percentage who are against Western values are much higher. Almost a quarter want sharia law and 4% sympathise with suicide bombers.
It's those people who corrupt the mind of those who do attack and build a fairly large springboard for others to become unhinged.
I would say it's about time something is done about it. I think the worst quarter should be deported. It's fair to say that wanting to introduce sharia law is a fair cutoff to when I legitimately want someone removed from the community so about 25% seems right.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... sharia-law
To be honest the view that we should deport people for their views alone is one that is completely at odds with Western values. Are you going to deport yourself?
Views of violent ideology or wanting to implement sharia law are not western values so what's wrong with not wanting people who support them out of the West? Deportation isn't against Western values too. It happens all the time to ensure the out stability but not often enough or against the wrong people.
I would much rather a Romanian ex convict who served a year in prison who now works hard in a full time job and is overall a chill guy any day over someone with a clean criminal record who sympathises with suicide bombers or wants to implement abhorrent laws.
Sure mass deportation represents western values... the dark side of western values that we've been trying to purge since 1945.
The people who were purged in WW2 did A. Nothing to deserve it and B. They were killed in the most horrific of ways.
Deporting people who want to implement sharia law and support suicide bombings and the killing of millions of Jews are not comparable.
I also think that it's perfectly reasonable not to be forced to live around people who enjoy watching us get blown up and want to force us to live under Islamic law.
The trouble is, the people calling for mass deportation often want to do it indiscriminately. They often could care less if the people they want deported are fanatic Muslims or not, just that they're Muslims.
05 Nov 2020, 6:15 pm
05 Nov 2020, 6:19 pm
05 Nov 2020, 6:22 pm
05 Nov 2020, 6:33 pm
05 Nov 2020, 10:02 pm
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 44
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,664
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
06 Nov 2020, 5:54 am
