Freedom of Speech and the recent unpleasantness

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19 Jan 2021, 4:19 pm

Many in the EXTREME right wing happen to be lunatics.....The Alt-Right.

Why would anybody deign to leave feces and urine within the confines of our Capitol? Only a nut would think of such a thing.

I don't feel moderate "right wingers" are of the same ilk at all.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:24 pm

League_Girl wrote:

The right wing have their own echo chambers too.

It's called tribalism. While it's something that's hardwired in our DNA, it's quite detrimental to our survival as a species.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:29 pm

VegetableMan wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

The right wing have their own echo chambers too.

It's called tribalism. While it's something that's hardwired in our DNA, it's quite detrimental to our survival as a species.

Lot of right wingers like to complain about echo chambers for leftists but I am pointing out they have their own too. They are free to create their own safe places where they can kick out liberals and leftists who dare to challenge their views or express their views.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:31 pm

League_Girl wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

The right wing have their own echo chambers too.

It's called tribalism. While it's something that's hardwired in our DNA, it's quite detrimental to our survival as a species.

Parler, anyone?

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19 Jan 2021, 4:34 pm

Fnord wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

The right wing have their own echo chambers too.

It's called tribalism. While it's something that's hardwired in our DNA, it's quite detrimental to our survival as a species.

Parler, anyone?

and Said It, Chimpout, and what else?

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GGPViper
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19 Jan 2021, 4:34 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

The argument to curb free expression revolves around the slippery slope argument or if you let them take a piece you just started the inevitable process of them taken the whole thing. In the current context if we allow hate speech Nazi rule will follow.

There is a slippery slope argument that goes the other way. It is based on a speech given by Martin Niemöller a German Lutheren paster, versions of it are displayed in various Holocaust museums.

Quote:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

At this point we are not speaking of the government literally taking you away but losing your ability to be employed, get bank loans if you hold certain views.
Whom except for white supremacists feels sorry for white supremacists losing these things? Not me.

Well, another version goes like this.

First they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.
Then they came for the Mexicans, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Mexican.
Then they came for the Chinese, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Chinese.
Then they came for the voters in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not from Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, Pennsylvania or Wisconsin.
Then they stormed the Capitol...

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19 Jan 2021, 4:38 pm

League_Girl wrote:

VegetableMan wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

The right wing have their own echo chambers too.

It's called tribalism. While it's something that's hardwired in our DNA, it's quite detrimental to our survival as a species.

I'm pointing out that we're all the same. There's no such thing as a good echo chamber.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:40 pm

Nazi Germany is a poster child example of what happens when you take tolerance of opinions too far. But no one likes these Nazi comparisons. Don't forget about Goodwin's Law. I think that is a way to shut down arguments and discussions and dismiss feelings and dismiss any concerns. Maybe at first that Law was intended for people who compare minor things to Hitler when what he did was thousand times more worse but I think it's valid to compare what is happening now to Hitler because this is where we are heading and if we look at the German history and Hitler, we all see how it all started and we see similarities between now and back then before Nazi Germany started.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:49 pm

One could also cite religious tolerance for allowing certain ideas and practices to go too far.

David Koresh, Jim Jones, Marshall Applewhite, and many other religious leaders may have started out preaching some merely strange ideas, but their churches eventually devolved into religious cults that ended the lives of hundreds of people.

Even the so-called "mainstream" religions -- Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism -- have produced leaders and followers who have committed atrocities in the name of their gods while believing that anything done in their gods' names was both righteous and unpunishable.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:56 pm

League_Girl wrote:

There are definitely strong parallels between early 30s Germany and our current situation. When you have a government that's not serving it's citizens during tough economic conditions, you're going to see right-wing, nationalist movements. When people are desperate, they'll cling to any bit of hope.

Censoring speech is not the answer. The only andidote for hate speech is more speech.

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19 Jan 2021, 4:57 pm

What is it about having the same rights and privileges as Atheists, Californians, non-evangelical Christians, Communists, Court Judges, Feminists, Foreigners, Hollywood Actors, Jews, Journalists, Liberals, Media Outlets, Minorities, Muslims, Queerfolk, Socialists, and Women that makes some conservative white men react so very toxically, take up arms, and attempt a coup against the United States government?

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19 Jan 2021, 5:32 pm

https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Amendment

https://www.britannica.com/topic/First-Amendment/Permissible-restrictions-on-expression

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19 Jan 2021, 5:43 pm

Fnord wrote:

What is it about pointing and sputtering about "white men" that makes you feel so pleased with yourself?

How have people like you been conditioned into thinking that a bunch of people organizing for the sake of their political interests is automatically bad if most of them are White? I mean the stuff I'm hearing about the Capitol rioters, and by extension all Trump supporters, is only slightly more extreme than the stuff I remember hearing from the Left about the Tea Party, and all they ever did was stand around mumbling about "freedom".

These are rhetorical questions, I'm not actually interested in reading more of your moral posturing.

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19 Jan 2021, 5:48 pm

League_Girl wrote:

Sorry to sound like a Trump lover but https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics ... index.html

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1998- ... ple-quote/

The Oracle of Truth appreciates your post.

It is amazing that so many people lap up this disinformation automatically without using their critical thinking skills.

I have noticed that a lot of what trump has said, in the past, is said in jest, and it is deliberately twisted.
Simply hating a person doesn't legitimise character assassination, in my book.
I find people like that lacking in integrity, and ironically, moral fibre.

Don't get me wrong.
I still think trump is a narcissistic twit, but I respect the Truth, unlike so many others.

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19 Jan 2021, 5:49 pm

cyberdad wrote:

And Trump tells Cyberdad "In your face you aussie kangaroo"

cyberdad wrote:

MaxE wrote:

League_Girl wrote:

Sorry to sound like a Trump lover but https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/10/politics ... index.html

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/1998- ... ple-quote/

Not at all. You are showing admirable responsibility.

Well I occasionally have to eat humble pie

"Occasionally"?

[snicker]

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19 Jan 2021, 5:53 pm

Fnord wrote:

Both/All sides are being artificially whipped into ideological conflict. Technology is fanning the flames. It's easy to get white men to storm the cpitol, as easy has it was to get white men to invade the middle east a thousand years ago. Nothing is more easy than manipulating one group of humans against another. its the oldest trick in the book. Is the story of civilization.

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