Should the government make vaccination compulsory?

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Fnord
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30 Dec 2021, 4:29 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
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Perfect.



Bradleigh
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30 Dec 2021, 4:44 pm

Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


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30 Dec 2021, 5:12 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


That is true but when it comes to covid vaccines everyone seems to become skeptical for some reason.


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30 Dec 2021, 5:15 pm

Fnord wrote:
Meh ... whatever ... I am tired of dealing with people for whom "common sense" has little or no meaning.

Unvaxxed people who die from covid (or smoking, or drinking, or riding a motorcycle without a helmet, or whatever) take themselves out of the gene pool, and improve the human species by raising the overall intelligence of same.


It is actually going to be the vaccinated who are taken out of the gene pool, since vaccines in general are known to cause infertility in biological women. :)


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blitzkrieg
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30 Dec 2021, 5:17 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


That is true but when it comes to covid vaccines everyone seems to become skeptical for some reason.


That's because they are being pushed onto educated adults, not children and adolescents.

"Get them whilst they are young" is the motto of big pharma'.


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30 Dec 2021, 5:18 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Oh okay, but do people need more time to get vaccinated if it's about time? What's taking so long? Also, is covid really going to fizzle out or that just something people tell others to feel better.


People have had enough time to get vaccinated and there's probably enough supply in Canada and the USA to have completed the job.. but people aren't all getting vaccinated because they've been convinced by conspiracy theories and "you can't make me, freedoms1!!" BS sold to them by right wing media and tinfoil hat types.

No matter which way you slice it, people haven't all gotten vaccinated and if restrictions are lifted a whole bunch of people will die - including people waiting for surgeries or cancer or heart treatments etc because covidiots will be clogging up the hospitals.

But besides the hesitant, not everyone who's been vaxxed has had their 3rd shot yet - it takes time to administer everything. I'd guess that Most people haven't had their 3rd shots yet as booster shots are a pretty new thing for Canadians. Most people I know haven't gotten text messages to book their 3rd shots yet.

So, yeah, for a variety of vaccination timeline reasons health officials need more time.


As for whether it'll fizzle out or not, who knows for sure - but that's the hope/theory. Omicron might even be the beginning of the end if it's now an oesophagus virus that doesn't make a high rate of people seriously ill or die. Only time will tell what actually ends up happening.


Oh okay, but people are choosing not to get vaccinated, how is the government proloning lifting restrictions going to help? Are they hoping the restrictions will cause those people to change their mind?


In many ways, yes. With restrictions in BC, you can't go into a restaurant or gym or concert/event etc without a valid vaccine pass. So more and more people are getting vaccinated so they can freely move about in society vs. be shut out from going places.

Also, over time the hope is that more people who are hesitant pay attention to the stats and realize that being vaccinated is straight up better for their own personal health vs. taking their chances unvaccinated and will make the smart choice to get vaccinated.

Obviously some people will dig in their heals and tell everyone to F off, they're never getting vaccinated - for whatever their reason is. (Typically influenced by some sort of media propaganda or another.) But until we hit a wall where no one else is coming forward to get vaccinated and the only ones unvaccinated are going to remain that way, we can't just stop encouraging people to get vaccinated. Eventually it'll get to a point where everyone who's going to get vaccinated will have done so and the rest will stubbornly take their chances. We're not there yet, though.


Oh okay, but why aren't we at that point yet? It seems that everyone who is getting vaccinated has done so and there are only the stubborn people left. Why aren't we there yet, unless I am missing something?



You are missing the fact that there are still people registering to get their first shots.. so we're not at a point yet where everyone who's going to make the choice to get vaccinated has done so yet.

IMHO in America, while we are not at 100 percent of those who will get vaccinated have done so we are close enough to that point to not make a difference in the course of the pandemic. Sure we should continue to encourage people because even if it saves one person hospitalization, death, or Long Covid it is worth it. We have tried every manner of verbal persuasion, exclusion, bribes, firing people and the refuseniks have proven they are willing to pay those prices. Even our most "blue state" politicians are throwing in the towel. DeBlasio is going to let the Times Square ball drop go on and every politician here says no lockdown, no school closures(although at the rate we are going massive sickness of workers is going to force defacto lockdowns). They are openly saying we have a mandate on books but we not going to enforce it but we really won't just more verbal persuasion attempts, because they can't sans actual dictatorial moves. It is just a matter of time until we do an Afghanistan on mask mandates also.

For more on this subject
Wrong Planet thread - How and if we can learn to live with COVID


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blitzkrieg
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30 Dec 2021, 5:20 pm

https://academic.oup.com/humrep/advance-article/doi/10.1093/humrep/deab238/6420384?login=true

"COVID-19 poses a threat to the reproductive systems of both males and females. The presence of SARS-CoV-2 in the vagina and placenta underlies the impairment of female fertility."

Scientists are basically bowing to political pressure right now to pretend that vaccines are not harming fertility.


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30 Dec 2021, 5:41 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
https://academic.oup.com/humrep/advance-article/doi/10.1093/humrep/deab238/6420384?login=true

"COVID-19 poses a threat to the reproductive systems of both males and females. The presence of SARS-CoV-2 in the vagina and placenta underlies the impairment of female fertility."

Scientists are basically bowing to political pressure right now to pretend that vaccines are not harming fertility.


Ah. You have just proven to me that covid was manufactured and by whom.


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30 Dec 2021, 5:55 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


Yes but those are traditionally made vaccines which have been proven to be safe. The covid vaccines are not actually classed as vaccines in the traditional sense as they work in a totally different way as these work by altering the genes. Something which has never been done before as it is only since we have introduced artificial intelligence into the field of medicine has it been possible to do this... So it is still essentially a very large scale experimental form of immunisation which is not exactly classed as a vaccine.

No one knows what the long term effects will be but some leading experts voiced their concerns for them to be silenced by governments who did not want mass panic on their hands.
If anything the immunisation program is more of a pacifier to divert attention away from other more pressing things that are happening at the moment.


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30 Dec 2021, 5:59 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


Yes but those are traditionally made vaccines which have been proven to be safe. The covid vaccines are not actually classed as vaccines in the traditional sense as they work in a totally different way as these work by altering the genes. Something which has never been done before as it is only since we have introduced artificial intelligence into the field of medicine has it been possible to do this... So it is still essentially a very large scale experimental form of immunisation which is not exactly classed as a vaccine.

No one knows what the long term effects will be but some leading experts voiced their concerns for them to be silenced by governments who did not want mass panic on their hands.
If anything the immunisation program is more of a pacifier to divert attention away from other more pressing things that are happening at the moment.



Skepticism. Scaremongering. Why do people do it? :roll:


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30 Dec 2021, 6:12 pm

Joe90 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
OK, I'm going to avoid reading this thread being so I got my booster tomorrow, I'm already nervous about it.


Boosters are half doses so people tend to have milder reactions.


Then how come a few people I know have been ill from the booster? I know one lady who was ill for 3 weeks from having the booster. Surely a vaccine shouldn't make one ill for that long?


Because they had a bit of a stronger reaction to it ?

There isn't one singular one-size-fits-all description of a reaction to ANY vaccine, EVER.


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30 Dec 2021, 6:15 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Pardon me if this has already been said. Should a government mandate vaccines? Heck no. Vaccines work by preventing people from getting sick from a virus someone else has. So even though you can get the vaccine, if you don’t get it the worst that happens is YOU get sick.

But the proper role of government is to protect its people. So it’s perfectly acceptable to mandate quarantines to prevent the spread of an infectious disease. The difference in principle is subtle but significant.


Disagree and so does our government and many others. There are already vaccine requirements to attend public school, serve in the military, travel abroad etc.

Someone getting sick with a preventable illness doesn't only affect them. It strains medical resources and takes away medical care from others awaiting cancer treatments, heart procedures, surgeries, dialysis etc. Antivaxxer freedomz people aren't just staying home and accepting the consequences of their actions when they get sick - they're jamming up hospitals and causing a ripple effect on others.


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30 Dec 2021, 6:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
Meh ... whatever ... I am tired of dealing with people for whom "common sense" has little or no meaning.

Unvaxxed people who die from covid (or smoking, or drinking, or riding a motorcycle without a helmet, or whatever) take themselves out of the gene pool, and improve the human species by raising the overall intelligence of same.


:heart: :heart: :heart:


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30 Dec 2021, 6:32 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


That is true but when it comes to covid vaccines everyone seems to become skeptical for some reason.


Because there are a lot of people in the tinfoil hat industry puking videos and articles onto the internet full of conspiracy theory bs OR politicizing covid and suggesting to people that getting vaccinated or abiding by mitigation measures is something that only the Other Side of the political aisle is supposed to do so they'd better show their loyalty to their political side by refusing and whining about their freedoms.

It's all about selling tinfoil, boner pills, and getting votes.. and unfortunately there are a lot of gullible people buying the bs these people are selling.


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30 Dec 2021, 6:47 pm

No.

The government has no right to tell anyone what to do with their body. That's a very slippery slope.


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30 Dec 2021, 6:48 pm

Mountain Goat wrote:
Bradleigh wrote:
Haven't vaccines been mandatory for a very long time? They have been required since forever for kids to enter school, and to travel to certain countries.


Yes but those are traditionally made vaccines which have been proven to be safe. The covid vaccines are not actually classed as vaccines in the traditional sense as they work in a totally different way as these work by altering the genes. Something which has never been done before as it is only since we have introduced artificial intelligence into the field of medicine has it been possible to do this... So it is still essentially a very large scale experimental form of immunisation which is not exactly classed as a vaccine.

No one knows what the long term effects will be but some leading experts voiced their concerns for them to be silenced by governments who did not want mass panic on their hands.
If anything the immunisation program is more of a pacifier to divert attention away from other more pressing things that are happening at the moment.



I am curious, where did you get the idea of this being a fact. Researching right now I can see some of the vaccines using something called mRNA, but it is vanishingly small that mRNA actually alters something like DNA, just as much as any virus could alter it. This fear of vaccines altering DNA seems to be based on fear of half understanding facts. Like saying that poisoning from dihydrogen monoxide is a key ingredient in many of the most dangerous substances on the planet, along with the process of nuclear power plants, and is a common cause of death from suffocation. Not understanding that dihydrogen monoxide is just water.


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