Elon Musk promotes free speech...then did THIS! Shocking.

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Honey69
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23 Apr 2023, 9:51 am

AngelRho wrote:

Because teaching CRT means making people feel guilty for being born the wrong skin color. You can’t solve racism with more racism.

CRT also says that it’s impossible for non-white people to be racist. I can’t recall the exact rationalization right now. I think maybe it’s because all minorities are oppressed by white men, therefore it’s expected minorities would hate white men. There’s no reason for white men to hate minorities, so it’s only racist when white men do it.

And yes, “white men”—the choice of words was deliberate.

Well? Where are the site's master debaters? By this point, I would expect to receive

The Standard Question wrote:

Why do you hate White men?

Weren't you watching Fox News when Obama was president?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/glenn-beck ... -a-racist/

Quote:

Fox News Channel commentator Glenn Beck said he believes President Barack Obama is a racist.

Beck made the statement during a guest appearance Tuesday on the "Fox & Friends" morning show. He said Obama has exposed himself as a person with "a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture."

And, of course

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKJixL ... veNewFilms

But, to get back to the South:

Over a million poor White southerners marched off to fight and die in the Civil War, to defend the privileges of the slave owners. Considering themselves superior for at least having been born White.

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of Black Americans signed up to join the fight to end slavery and preserve the union.

In the Confederacy?

Quote:

The closest the Confederacy came to seriously attempting to equip colored soldiers in the army proper came in the last few weeks of the war. The Confederate Congress narrowly passed a bill allowing slaves to join the army. The bill did not offer or guarantee an end to their servitude as an incentive to enlist, and only allowed slaves to enlist with the consent of their masters. Even this weak bill, supported by Robert E. Lee, passed only narrowly, by a 9–8 vote in the Senate. President Jefferson Davis signed the law on March 13, 1865, but went beyond the terms in the bill by issuing an order on March 23 to offer freedom to slaves so recruited. The emancipation offered, however, was reliant upon a master's consent; "no slave will be accepted as a recruit unless with his own consent and with the approbation of his master by a written instrument conferring, as far as he may, the rights of a freedman." According to historian William C. Davis, President Davis felt that blacks would not fight unless they were guaranteed their freedom after the war. Gaining this consent from slaveholders, however, was an "unlikely prospect"

According to calculations of Virginia's state auditor, some 4,700 free black males and more than 25,000 male slaves between eighteen and forty five years of age were fit for service. Two companies were raised from laborers of two local hospitals-Winder and Jackson-as well as a formal recruiting center created by General Ewell and staffed by Majors James Pegram and Thomas P. Turner. In all, they managed to recruit about 200 men. They paraded down the streets of Richmond, albeit without weapons. At least one such review had to be cancelled due not merely to lack of weaponry, but also lack of uniforms or equipment. These units did not see combat; Richmond fell without a battle to Union armies one week later in early April 1865. These two companies were the sole exception to the Confederacy's policy of spurning black soldiery, never saw combat, and came too late in the war to matter.

Here is what Robert Toombs thought of allowing Black men into the Southern army:

http://cwmemory.com/2014/11/13/it-is-a- ... -question/

Robert Toombs wrote:

...The negro, first, is unfitted for a soldier. Secondly, if I am wrong in that, if he is capable of making a soldier, he ought to be and will be a Yankee soldier… In my opinion, the worst calamity that could befall us would be to gain our independence by the valor of our slaves, instead of our own. If we are conquered by the fortunes of war, we may save our honor and leave the cause to our descendants...

...The day that the army of Virginia allows a negro regiment to enter their lines as soldiers they will be degraded, ruined and disgraced...

...Their remedy is to make freemen of slaves. That will not get far enough along to fail; it is a piece of embecile stupidity, as well as treacherous to the cause...But if you put our negroes and white men into the army together, you must and will put them on an equality; they must be under the same code, the same pay, allowances and clothing. There must be promotions for valor or there will be no morals among them. Therefore, it is a surrender of the entire slavery question.

And, who can forget the Fort Pillow massacre?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180981952/

Quote:

...USCT Private George Shaw testified that a Confederate shot him after he surrendered, telling him, “Damn you. You are fighting against your master.” The Confederates then threw Shaw into the river, where he survived by swimming until night fell. Shaw said he witnessed the execution of three teenagers who had taken refuge at the fort after escaping from slavery. Unable to swim, the boys made easy targets. “They begged them as long as they could,” Shaw remembered, “but they shot them right in the forehead.”...

...For the rest of the war, “Remember Fort Pillow!” was a rallying cry for the USCT. Pinheiro thinks that Black soldiers shouted the phrase before battle to remind themselves that they, unlike white troops, “did not have the racial privilege of surrendering.”...

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funeralxempire
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23 Apr 2023, 12:27 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It doesn't though. The privilege is being spared certain forms of discrimination.

Ignoring that definition to reframe it as something worse is a good example of that fragility.

Being spared from institutional racism is being treated fairly. The ‘White Privilege’ concept is the reframing of the original concept of privilege as being granted privileges because you know somebody or can buy them or earned them.

Indeed, only some people have the privilege of receiving relatively fair treatment.

Where exactly does the problem lay with saying so?

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ASPartOfMe
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23 Apr 2023, 1:20 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It doesn't though. The privilege is being spared certain forms of discrimination.

Ignoring that definition to reframe it as something worse is a good example of that fragility.

Indeed, only some people have the privilege of receiving relatively fair treatment.

Where exactly does the problem lay with saying so?

With “some people” you are making privilege at least partially a matter of individual circumstance. I have no issue with that. I don’t have a problem with saying race plays a role in the odds of being privileged. “Wokeism” takes it further to say it is an automatic thing. Therein lies one of my main problems with “wokeism”.

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funeralxempire
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23 Apr 2023, 1:27 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It doesn't though. The privilege is being spared certain forms of discrimination.

Ignoring that definition to reframe it as something worse is a good example of that fragility.

Indeed, only some people have the privilege of receiving relatively fair treatment.

Where exactly does the problem lay with saying so?

The problem is, for people who are colour coded, the judgment is typically automatic.

ASPartOfMe
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23 Apr 2023, 1:44 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It doesn't though. The privilege is being spared certain forms of discrimination.

Ignoring that definition to reframe it as something worse is a good example of that fragility.

Indeed, only some people have the privilege of receiving relatively fair treatment.

Where exactly does the problem lay with saying so?

The problem is, for people who are colour coded, the judgment is typically automatic.

Absolutely, that is why I said that the white privilege explanation is the wrong explanation for the problems of prejudice and discrimination.

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23 Apr 2023, 2:06 pm

This just happened in the UK:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-65365978

I don't think Diane Abbott did anything horribly wrong, though I'm open to rational persuasion as to how she might have done. I don't see anything of the kind in the article. It seems the Jewish Voice For Labour group are of my opinion. How come such draconian sanctions were taken against her when there's no consensus of serious wrongdoing among the groups that represent her supposed victims?

funeralxempire
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23 Apr 2023, 2:09 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Indeed, only some people have the privilege of receiving relatively fair treatment.

Where exactly does the problem lay with saying so?

The problem is, for people who are colour coded, the judgment is typically automatic.

Absolutely, that is why I said that the white privilege explanation is the wrong explanation for the problems of prejudice and discrimination.

It's really just a perspective shift. Instead of seeing it from the position of those with the privilege for whom that's normal and instead look from the perspective of those denied that privilege.

It doesn't seem like a privilege when it's your normal. It does when you're denied it.

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23 Apr 2023, 3:06 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

I don’t have a problem with saying race plays a role in the odds of being privileged. “Wokeism” takes it further to say it is an automatic thing. Therein lies one of my main problems with “wokeism”.

Are there any actual "wokists" who say so?

As far as I can tell, "wokism" is just a buzzword used by Fox Noise and other fascists who want to criticize entities for the imagined sins of trying to be nice or inclusive.

Like Mrs. Betty Bowers, America's best Christian, says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_9eZMUBE2E

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ASPartOfMe
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23 Apr 2023, 8:24 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:

While I disagree with her view that Jews and other people can not experience actual racism vs prejudice similar to racism because many white supremacists view Jews as a conspiratorial race that is a point for debate, not prejudice. She is paying an unfair price for the Labour's reputation as an anti-Semitic party.

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23 Apr 2023, 8:32 pm

Honey69 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Whites will always be racist, author says at Tulsa event
This author is very influential.
If a person believes that not all white people are racist or privileged then that person ain't really woke.

As far as the video it is doing what they accuse somewhat accurately accuse Republicans of doing. Engaging in hyperbolic allegations based on some truth against a group of people.

Off Topic

You should stop focusing on the South. We all know the history. Nowadays the South is actually less segregated than a lot of areas in the North. Trump's base is in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania. George Santos is my representative to Congress (I did not vote for him). Long Island is not the South. The South is not that different from a lot of the rest of the country.

AMERICAN FACE OF INSURRECTION Analysis of Individuals Charged for Storming the US Capitol on January 6, 2021

Quote:

3. THE GEOGRAPHY OF THE INSURRECTION
the individuals charged with participating in the January 6, 2021 attack on the US
Capitol to prevent the certification of Joe Biden as the 46th president come from all over the country, 45 states
plus the District of Columbia.

A common narrative amongst the political left maintains that insurrectionists come from places where Trump is
the most politically dominant – rural, almost completely white, and with high unemployment – not Biden
strongholds. This narrative is captured by this colorful quote describing the insurrectionists from an Atlantic
article:

“Here they were, a coalition of the willing: deadbeat dads, YouPorn enthusiasts, slow
students, and MMA fans. They had heard the rebel yell, packed up their Confederate flags
and Trump banners, and GPS-ed their way to Washington. After a few wrong turns, they
had pulled into the swamp with bellies full of beer and Sausage McMuffins, maybe a little
high on Adderall, ready to get it done."

But we find that this is not the case. Although the January 6 insurrectionists are all pro-Trump activists, they do
not hail from just the reddest parts of the country. Indeed, they come from 45 states plus the District of Columbia. including large pools from urban parts of “blue” states such as New York and California and none
from some of the “reddest” states such as North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Wyoming. While most
large urban counties tend to be very blue, there are still vast numbers of Trump supporters in them, and
insurrectionists are often drawn from this population.

There are 3 specific characteristics of the counties that produced insurrectionists highlighted below that
articulate different ways in which the common expectation that the insurrectionists are drawn from the reddest
parts of the country is flawed:
• Most insurrectionists came from counties that Biden won
• Most insurrectionists came from counties that are less white than the national county average
• Most insurrectionists came from urban, not rural, counties
• Most insurrectionists do not come from counties with higher than average unemployment
What does explain where the insurrectionists come from? Our analysis suggests that local decline of the non-
Hispanic white population has a galvanizing effect, and counties that have had higher rates of non-Hispanic
white population decline in the last half-decade are likely to produce insurrectionists at a higher rate.

While the study does strongly suggest racist motivation geography seems to have little to do with it. Note the study says "“reddest” states such as North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, and Wyoming". Those are not southern states.

Honey69
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24 Apr 2023, 8:24 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Whites will always be racist, author says at Tulsa event
This author is very influential.
If a person believes that not all white people are racist or privileged then that person ain't really woke.

Okay. That woman is nuts. She doesn't use the term "woke" (at least in that article), but she is nuts.

John McWhorter offers an effective counter-argument.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ty/614146/

She may have a few valid points, but labeling everyone a racist isn't going to help anything. A logical response might be "Well, I'm a racist, no matter what I do. I'm still as bad as Hitler. Why should I wallow in self-loathing? I can't do anything about how I was born."

Still, the anti-woke reaction, and the war on wokism, are worse. Miss DiAngelo can easily be dismissed as a harmless crank. The anti-wokers are basically on the level of school boys playing about girl germs.

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ASPartOfMe
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24 Apr 2023, 11:50 am

Honey69 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Whites will always be racist, author says at Tulsa event
This author is very influential.
If a person believes that not all white people are racist or privileged then that person ain't really woke.

She may be a crank but she is anything but harmless. White Fragility was the Oxford Word of the year for 2017.Her White Fragility book was on New York Times best seller list for 155 weeks and was number 1 on that list following the murder of George Floyd. She has been described as a “leading figure in the field and industry of antiracism training”.

I gave my thoughts on which side is worse earlier in thread in which I said in the short and medium it’s the right. The lesser of two evils is still evil. I am unwilling to ignore “woke” illiberalism because the anti woke movement makes my job harder, a lot harder, possibly impossible.

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24 Apr 2023, 2:19 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Okay. I never heard of her before. Speaking of "fragility", she seems extremely fragile herself.

From earlier comments, possibly in the present discussion, I gather that Feminism, and the attendant red pill/blue pill theories, are something of a third rail in the Wrong Planet discussion boards.

When I was employed, I knew women who could play the victim card quite effectively, to their own personal benefit. And, women in positions of power who could get away with the most vile nastiness. Pulling things that no man would dare attempt. Destroying other people's careers on a whim.

ASPartOfMe wrote:

the anti woke movement makes my job harder, a lot harder, possibly impossible.

What kind of job would that be? It seems to me that the anti-woke movement is largely just for laughs. Designed to make normal people's eyes roll.

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24 Apr 2023, 9:56 pm

Honey69 wrote:

ASPartOfMe wrote:

the anti woke movement makes my job harder, a lot harder, possibly impossible.

What kind of job would that be? It seems to me that the anti-woke movement is largely just for laughs. Designed to make normal people's eyes roll.

The "job" is advocating against "wokeness". When people who agree with you are bad people or are very wrong it destroys the credibility of all who agree with them.

The anti-woke backlash is no laughing matter. They are an extensional threat to freedom of expression. They have passed or will pass actual laws to this effect. They are the governments in a number of states. Agree or disagree with the trans movement but by constantly demonizing as groomers they are putting these people and those who advocate for them in physical danger.

Honey69
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25 Apr 2023, 8:55 am

AngelRho wrote:

RandoNLD wrote:

To the extent that CRT is on any curriculum, it's pretty much only going to be in the Humanities departments of universities and not even every university.

Ok. But where do you think teachers come from? Who do you think the professors are who teach all the required courses teachers have to pass?

Lessons learned from Soviet failure are that favorable hegemonic shifts cannot happen unless a majority is willing to accept it. Education is compulsory in the USA. The real seat of power isn’t government. It’s academia where activist professors have more sway over what children are taught and how.

So, just how prevalent are these nutty professors? John McWhorter is also a professor. I don't think that it is the case that all, or even most college professors espouse CRT, at least to Miss DiAngelo's extent.

ASPartOfMe wrote:

While certainly true, I've had some issues, at various times in the past, and in various places, with how some Southerners understood American history. And, AngelRho has expressed concern over where teachers come from, and how they are taught. And, I think that many Southerners were brought up with views that were at least as slanted as CRT.

Some Southerners think that hundreds of thousands of Black Southerners joined the Confederate army to fight for "states' rights" against the North, and that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War. None of this is true.

Southerners have generally forgiven Lincoln to some extent (you can hardly be a Republican without at least acknowledging Lincoln).

But, to listen to them, Grant was the worst president since Hitler, and Reconstruction was the worst thing that any group of people endured since the holocaust.

The Civil War, didn't really end with Lee's capitulation. Former confederates started a terrorist organization, the Ku Klux Klan, and continued the war for years after.

https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/presid ... x-klan.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstruction_era

Quote:

...In 10 states, coalitions of freedmen, recent Black and White arrivals from the North, and White Southerners who supported Reconstruction cooperated to form Republican, biracial state governments. They introduced various Reconstruction programs including funding public schools, establishing charitable institutions, raising taxes, and funding public improvements such as improved railroad transportation and shipping...

...Conservative opponents called the Republican regimes corrupt and instigated violence toward freedmen and Whites who supported Reconstruction. Most of the violence was carried out by members of the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), a secretive terrorist organization closely allied with the Southern Democratic Party. Klan members attacked and intimidated black people seeking to exercise their new civil rights, as well as Republican politicians in the South favoring those civil rights...Widespread violence in the South led to federal intervention by President Ulysses S. Grant in 1871, which suppressed the Klan...

Here is an 1872 campaign song for Grant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKF0pgU ... sicChannel

From the Description Section of the Video wrote:

Between the elections of 1868 and 1872, the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution was ratified:

Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

President Grant said that the 15th Amendment "completes the greatest civil change and constitutes the most important event that has occurred since the nation came to life."

An anonymous author composed the lyrics for the present song (to the tune of “Dixie”) for Ulysses S. Grant’s reelection campaign of 1872. He and vice presidential candidate Henry Wilson ran against Democratic candidate Horace Greeley and running mate Benjamin G. Brown. The song addresses the enforcement of the newly passed Fifteenth Amendment, and the violence of the Ku Klux Klan.

In spite of President Grant's optimism, voting rights have continued to be under threat in the United States (particularly the Southern States), with efforts at voter suppression becoming increasingly intense. Attempts to curtail voting might be somewhat less violent and murderous now than during the 1870s. On the other hand, this year marked the first time that a violent insurrection ransacked the United States capitol. Just "stand back and stand by", as a traitorous former president once said, and see what happens next.

So, where did the teachers come from, who taught Southern children that Grant was the worst president since Hitler, and Reconstruction was the worst thing that any group of people endured since the holocaust?

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25 Apr 2023, 9:17 am

Grant wasn’t that great in his dealings with the inhabitants of the plains.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... 180960787/

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