I am going to make a Nazi comparison

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Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

A child at that age who is trans may socially transition, which is to say present as the gender they identify with.

But hey, apparently even sports for kids who haven't started puberty is too serious to let trans people compete on the appropriate team.

And yet we're supposed to believe bigotry isn't the motive. :roll:

Even at 9, males are typically larger than females. Are you saying that a group of males, who on average have a higher muscle mass are the same strength as a group of females with a lower muscle mass because this is certainly what it seems like.

On average doesn't mean every individual. Those two populations overlap in terms of strength.

So? Do sport by weight classes instead or something? That's actually something I can get behind within reason.

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27 May 2023, 1:35 pm

They could factor in both weight and muscle mass.

In my experience, people who complain about trans people in sports or bathrooms are transphobic. Most people don’t care that much about the sports in question, and most people, beyond the age of 7, aren’t obsessed with bathrooms.

These topics are just used as weapons to attack trans people.

As a woman, I wouldn’t be devastated if a transwoman beat me at something. Losing is a part of life.

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Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:40 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

They have valid points to make about muscle mass and differences in the skeleton which isn't actually anything to do with being trans.

I keep telling you that to be a bigot, one needs to have a direct hatred against a group of people for who they are, not take issue with grammar, muscles, size or legislation. Those are completely separate issues.

funeralxempire
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27 May 2023, 1:41 pm

Nades wrote:

So? Do sport by weight classes instead or something? That's actually something I can get behind within reason.

A lot of sports wouldn't benefit from that. Like, how would soccer benefit from weight classes? Heavier players get both pros and cons from being bigger.

Likewise, a lot of sports can be played mixed without it being a serious issue. In fact, at the pro and top-tier amateur levels I'm surprised that we don't ever run mixed tournaments.

Some sports might need changes to the rules (mixed ice hockey would need to use the women's rules, so no hitting) but some (like soccer) wouldn't need any changes at all.

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TwilightPrincess
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27 May 2023, 1:41 pm

Nades wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

I keep telling you that to be a bigot, one needs to have a direct hatred against a group of people for who they are, not take issue with grammar, muscles, size or legislation. Those are completely separate issues.

You are free to think that; I’m free to disagree. :wink:

Bigotry is not always obvious and it’s not always in your face. Certain attitudes show it for what it is, though.

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Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:43 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Nades wrote:

So? Do sport by weight classes instead or something? That's actually something I can get behind within reason.

Dpends on the numbers of competitors. A male to female trans person with a clear advantage in size can't be matched up all that well. This is were limitations on weight classes come into play. Also, when large numbers of competitors averaging out weights will be a big problem.

Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:44 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

Nades wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

You are free to think that; I’m free to disagree. :wink:

Bigotry is not always obvious and it’s not always in your face. Certain attitudes show it for what it is, though.

Well clearly, you have no idea what bigotry is.

TwilightPrincess
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27 May 2023, 1:46 pm

Bigotry:

Quote:

obstinate or intolerant devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices : the state of mind of a bigot

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigotry

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TwilightPrincess
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27 May 2023, 1:48 pm

Bigot:

Quote:

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices
especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

I think you are displaying a fair amount of intolerance towards trans people in this thread.

The fact that you keep on getting in heated debates over trans issues says a lot.

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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 27 May 2023, 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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27 May 2023, 1:52 pm

Nades wrote:

A male to female trans person with a clear advantage in size can't be matched up all that well. This is were limitations on weight classes come into play. Also, when large numbers of competitors averaging out weights will be a big problem.

Meanwhile what's been overlooked is that a transwomen who isn't at a size advantage probably can be matched up well.

Different sports likely will need to handle this issue in different ways, but with combat sports they have the option of using exhibition matches to test and see what works best.

They already have weight classes and they can figure out if weight handicapping is appropriate.

Combat sports seem like the category where the strongest case can be made that it might be an issue. Most other sports can probably make it work.

Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:53 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

Bigotry:

Quote:

obstinate or intolerant devotion to one's own opinions and prejudices : the state of mind of a bigot

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigotry

It's prejudice of a person for their membership of a group. I.e, one needs to dislike that person because they are trans.

Thinking "Dang, that male to female trans person has a really strong upper body and has been winning against a lot of female swimmers recently, we need to check with a doctor if there's a medical reason for it"

Or "I don't think the meaning of "They" can't change so quickly" doesn't fit the definition of bigotry. They're both side issues unrelated, one is of muscle mass and one of semantics/grammar.

Last edited by Nades on 27 May 2023, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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27 May 2023, 1:54 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

The fact that you keep on getting in heated debates over trans issues says a lot.

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Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:56 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

The fact that you keep on getting in heated debates over trans issues says a lot.

I almost never do. The last one was about two days ago and the one before that about a 6 months or so ago, perhaps longer.

If I was really a transphobe you would have thought I would love posting in the LGBT thread but last post was probably about 3 years ago.

Stop alluding to the assumption I'm a bigot, it's constant personal attacks.

Last edited by Nades on 27 May 2023, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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27 May 2023, 1:57 pm

Nades wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

The fact that you keep on getting in heated debates over trans issues says a lot.

If I was really a transphobe you would have thought I would love posting in the LGBT thread but last post was probably about 3 years ago.

Actually, I wouldn’t think that. Most people aren’t THAT stupid.

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Nades
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27 May 2023, 1:58 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:

Nades wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

The fact that you keep on getting in heated debates over trans issues says a lot.

If I was really a transphobe you would have thought I would love posting in the LGBT thread but last post was probably about 3 years ago.

Actually, I wouldn’t think that. Most people aren’t THAT stupid.

Well stop making insinuations I'm a bigot. It's getting annoying.

TwilightPrincess
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27 May 2023, 2:00 pm

Nades wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

Nades wrote:

Twilightprincess wrote:

The fact that you keep on getting in heated debates over trans issues says a lot.

If I was really a transphobe you would have thought I would love posting in the LGBT thread but last post was probably about 3 years ago.

Actually, I wouldn’t think that. Most people aren’t THAT stupid.

Well stop making insinuations I'm a bigot. It's getting annoying.

Uh oh! Nades is getting annoyed. We’d better call an ambulance.

Don’t tell me what I can or can’t insinuate! :evil:

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