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Awesomelyglorious
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20 Mar 2008, 7:40 pm

Griff wrote:

Ultimately, the fallacy of socialism is that it makes the same fallacy as classical liberalism: it evaluates people in dollar bills. It just makes different kinds of stupid mistakes based upon this assumption. What we need is a system that addresses practical, meaningful concerns with practical, meaningful solutions. I'm not asking for the moon, here. I'm just asking for a chance to make myself worth the world's while. As long as I have a hope of that, I can keep on rolling. That's what we want people to be able to do. That's where the money is.

Actually, I cannot think of a system that doesn't evaluate people in terms of dollar bills. Every system has issues of resources and effectively handling those resources. I mean, if you speak of the cultural/subjective elements, I would argue that only socialism could necessarily force people to only value resources, but if you are speaking of the workings of a system, all systems refer back to the available resources and the effective use of those resources. Frankly Griff, "meaningful" is a term with subjective meaning as people determine for themselves what is meaningful, so by asserting that, you are asserting a system that does what you want and covering it up with rhetoric. In fact, most of your assertion there is rhetoric as it speaks of a collective value to promote poorly defined goals.

Griff
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21 Mar 2008, 3:26 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Frankly Griff, "meaningful" is a term with subjective meaning as people determine for themselves what is meaningful

This should be obvious. A "system" that doesn't take this into account is inherently flawed. A possible solution would be reducing centralization. It would provide a degree of plasticity.

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so by asserting that, you are asserting a system that does what you want

You're full of distortions today, aren't you, AG?

If you are only interested in being hostile, shut up, and make way for those who are interested in productive discussion.

Awesomelyglorious
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21 Mar 2008, 3:46 pm

Griff wrote:

This should be obvious. A "system" that doesn't take this into account is inherently flawed. A possible solution would be reducing centralization. It would provide a degree of plasticity.

Um... yes, the fact that it is subjective is obvious, however, reducing centralization does not really address subjectivity. Are you trying to assert a semi-libertarian ethic without actually asserting a semi-libertarian ethic?

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You're full of distortions today, aren't you, AG?

No, not so much as you are either full of crap, or incapable of phrasing your ideas properly.

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If you are only interested in being hostile, shut up, and make way for those who are interested in productive discussion.

Hostile? Trust me, you aren't seeing me hostile. I am merely jabbing away at what appears to be nonsense to me.

Averick
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21 Mar 2008, 6:55 pm

ouinon wrote:

Averick wrote:

I'm socialist, but there are days when I wonder the degree. Ouinon was talking about the political compass test, and I scored in the same range as him..