A question for those who support China's atrocities in Tibet

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Ive heard many claims of genocide by the Tibetan government in Exile; but I really see NO evidence that Tibetans are being
massacred. What I DO see is the persecution of the Tibetan buddhist clergy and Tibetans who speak out against Chinese Rule.
Im convinced the Tibetan situation is a lot like the situation of the Basques in Northern Spain. If there really IS a genocide, then what I want to know is where are the Mass graves? I'd like to see some testimonies from third parties about whats really going on and NOT just the Tibetan government in exile; which definitely has a strong incentive to make a false claim of genocide to rally support for their cause.

You won't get that, because China restricts access to Tibet and controls the flow of information. The U.N. needs to force human rights observers into that region so we can find out the truth.

As far as I’m concerned, in an ideal world, national borders would correspond as closely as possible to ethnic dividing lines, and so the Tibetans would have their own state. But it’s understandably not in the interest of China, or any other country, to show weakness when faced with separatist movements within their own borders. As a British citizen, I generally think the UK should keep their noses out of the affairs of other countries as much as is practical. I’d feel the same about the US if I were a US citizen.

I don’t know what’s unique about Tibet. I must admit I don’t remember hearing about the trouble in Guatemala.
I should point out that the Palestinian cause is quite fashionable in Britain. It’s not something I can get worked up about, because I don’t really think the Palestinian leaders believe in their purported cause themselves (even though their people might). But I guess I would say again, ideally the Palestinians would have their own state just like the Tibetans.

One thing that is strange though is that the liberal left in the West can quite easily understand and support nationalist sentiment in minority groups on the other side of the world, but when they see it among their own kin – i.e., among the demographically threatened majority populations in the West – they’re horrified.

Of course the Chinese government restricts access to Tibet by investigative journalists and Tibetan exiles!
I Never said that they are a reliable source of information about whats really going on in Tibet, but I dont trust the Tibetan government-in-exile to be honest since they Clearly have an axe to grind. But what if the TRUTH is that there really is NO genocide going on, even though there's repression?(keep in mind that's a WHAT-IF) I honestly believe that the popular support for Tibetan independence in the west is motivated by rivalry with China AND in particular about an idyllic misconception about Tibetan culture and naive idolization of the Dalai Lama by the left as new-age saint. People here in American were OUTRAGED by the massacre of Children in Beslan by Chechen rebels but seemed to think that the pogroms against ethnic chinese in Lhasa is no big deal.I notice VERY LITTLE support in the west for Chechen freedom but ethusiastic support for Tibetan sucessionism. Why is that??(seriously though)

I propose we offer a deal to China where we give them California in exchange for letting Tibet go free. That would also be good because it would free us of all those rich snobs like Paris Hilton and so on.

Sounds more like death by drowning to me.

Can we keep this in perspective? Even the Tibetan exiles (who have every reason to exaggerate) claim like 100 deaths - yet we have people comparing it to the Holocaust. Wishing Tibet were independent or disapproving of the CCP is one thing, but such hyperbole is just dishonest propaganda.

monty, Kosovo and East Timor are unable to provide their own security against internal dissent or organised crime, independnetly of external threats. An independent Tibet could well en up the same.

D1nk0, the Chechens are Muslims, hence no Western support (even though it appears they're mostly moderate). The Basques get to elect their local authorities and have real autonomy. Such arrangement would probably be the best thing for Tibet.

codarac, what you're proposing was more or less tried after WWI in Europe - it was one of the most disastrous peace settlements in history. Ethnic partitions of existing countries usually lead to genocide - because you don't have everybody of one group on one side of a line and everyone of another group on the other, and because these partitions tend to awaken dormant primitive tribal conflicts. What is special about Tibet is that it's good anti-China propaganda. There are claims (I have no idea if they're true or not) that it has vast uranium reserves, which if true would explain (apart from the large deposits of other minerals it has) both why China is so determined to cling to it and the West so keen on independence. The Guatemalan atrocities were committed by a Western-backed government, while the Acteal massacre also implicated a Western-backed government; the Western press mostly continued to sing its praises after Acteal. 'Conspiracy of silence' comes to mind. Also notice that, while Sudan's behaviour in Darfur is orders of magnitude worse than China's in Tibet, Tibet has completely displaced Darfur in the Western media.

Gromit, the ayatollahs in Iran, before the revolution, claimed they were not after power. Tibet's relatively recent theocratic past, and the fact that their high priest heads the government-in-exile, would at least suggest that a theocracy would be attempted. I agree that China does not want a democratic Tibet.

Psychlone: Do you also support Chechen independence from Russia too? Why do Buddhists deserve independence more so than muslims or any other religion?

I think the Chechens should be free too. They are also victims of genocide and they are a large ethnic group without their own homeland. I agree with a previous poster who said every ethnic group should have a homeland so they don't become exterminated or assimilated by other ethnic groups.



Now may be a different story, but millions of Tibetans did die under the Mao years (and so did many Han Chinese too). I haven't made any claim about the current situation, and it is impossible to do this because of the censorship and journalism restrictions China has imposed. But you must admit it is a little suspicious they aren't letting third party observers inside.

Yes, under Mao clearly practically any regime would have been better for Tibet, and for China proper. China clearly wishes to hide current repression, but nevertheless it is surely safe to say that it cannot be worse than the exiles are saying. The contrast between the Western focus on Tibet and its comparative indifference to the plight of other minorities cannot be justified by the severity of the situation.
My opinion of Chechenya is similar - I am skeptical that it could sustain itself as a sovereign state.

Chechnya has oil; in fact there are already oil wells and refineries so there is oil ready for exporting. Tibet however, is FAR less developed and its only known resource is Uranium. The geography of the country is what kept it so isolated and enabled it to be independent for centuries before the chinese conquest. An newly independent Tibet WOULD be a 3rd world country for quite some time...