Prove reality exists.

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greenblue
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11 Aug 2008, 3:46 pm

Bradleigh wrote:

How do you know that you are not see things differently to others, what is stoping what one person sees as green being someone elses purple. Then again how do you know that you are not just imagining things, have you seen the movie 'Vanila sky"? your reality may just be a biproduct of a halucination caused within the points of the mind, like one big dream.

It's interesting, that when I am dreaming, I usually believe to be living in the real world at the time, it's not until when I wake up, I realise I wasn't and that it was just a dream. Surely that happens regularly to everyone when they are dreaming.

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Perception is irrelevant as the chemistry and physics underlying this corporeal universe governs the phenomena we observe. Some people may be handicapped and not fully capable of experiencing things the way others do, but they may dwell on other aspects of the same phenomena.

I don't think it is necessarily irrelevant, and you said the phenomena we observe, we observe whatever we believe to observe because of our perception, and the laws of physics and chemistry and all that have been established, have been made by measuring, testing and observing with the use of instruments, which are made according with human ability and human perception, humans interprete and observe the results according to their capacity of perception. The rules of logic, theories, ideologies, philosophies, techonolgy, all of it are product of the capacity of the mind, and that capacity might be limited, and that limitation can raise the question about the reality we perceive. As we might be closer to see reality as it is than animals, are we actually there?

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Averick
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11 Aug 2008, 3:47 pm

Could we please dwelve into your rigid belief system then please, Anubus?

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11 Aug 2008, 3:52 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

But anyway, the best way to address these issues is logic. Prove to the people that what they propose or what they must accept are things that contradict their position.

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Solipsists are just deluded morons who think that they're unique and special. As they think that they're the only ones that exist and maybe control reality, one can just say anything they like. It's not real, right? It's all an illusion!! !! ! Because I say it is!! !! !! !! !

Yep, that is solipsism, and nothing can be said one way or another against the position.

For one, we are all apparently living, breathing human beings. How can one brain host so many other complex minds? The world is so complex that it simply cannot all be held in the mind at once.
If it was all an illusion, couldn't you make that illusion go away? Or control reality through your mind? Use hacking skills, even? Perhaps the solipsist should go to prison, and see how much control that they have over reality then. Or perhaps they are a lost cause, because such beliefs are fundamental to their perception of reality. There is only one person, and no-one else.

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greenblue
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11 Aug 2008, 4:04 pm

Anubis wrote:

Srsly, people trying to deny reality are the ones making farfetched claims. The proof is everywhere. Unless you're seriously deluded........

It is an interesting philosophical position, an interesting question, if reality (as we perceive it) does really exist or not, deluded you said, but that is part of the question, are we all deluded to think of reality in a certain way?

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Awesomelyglorious
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11 Aug 2008, 4:05 pm

Anubis wrote:

Apparently, I can't prove that other people are anything but zombies.

An advanced enough computer could host so many other complex minds, who is to say that the solipsist isn't such a mind? Not only that, but isn't it theoretically possible that the solipsist has divided capabilities? A phenomenal brain that is separate from his world mind(which is reflective of subconscious desires), but both ultimately holding to a unity? Sort of like an egoist pantheism. Without the self, the rest of reality dies, and the self needs an "external" world to project itself upon. Sort of like a self-imposed dream, or perhaps some form of schizophrenia, all of the externals are creations of the self, but they seem like realistic expressions of an external.

Possibly, possibly not. It really depends upon how much the actor holds the reigns over the external. A solipsist does not have to be a paragon of self-control, as we do not control a number of our actions and thoughts already. Perhaps the solipsist partially is doing so already. How else does he explain the fortuitous breakthroughs in his life, and the bizarre coincidental actions? This does not mean he has conscious control.

The solipsist is a lost cause so long as they can maintain internal consistency. Perhaps large psychological stresses can destroy their beliefs, but what is the point then?

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11 Aug 2008, 4:13 pm

Well said. However, does it change the way that the solipsist acts?

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11 Aug 2008, 4:23 pm

Anubis wrote:

Well said. However, does it change the way that the solipsist acts?

Solipsists are people, they learn like all others do.

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11 Aug 2008, 4:28 pm

So, do you bridge a common similiarity between solipsism and narcissism?

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11 Aug 2008, 4:34 pm

Averick wrote:

So, do you bridge a common similiarity between solipsism and narcissism?

Well, me? Of course! But, I simply do not think that narcissists would formally think about the world to come to the conclusion of solipsism, but rather see themselves as gods rather than being the only existent beings.

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11 Aug 2008, 4:36 pm

Averick wrote:

So, do you bridge a common similiarity between solipsism and narcissism?

or maybe between solipsism and autism, I don't see the necessarily connection with narcissism, most likely a connection of symptoms of autism I suppose?

Having said that, I have no proof to myself, that all people here to be real or not, I actually have come to think, just exploring the philosophy of solipsism that all of you might be fictional characters or perhaps, highly advanced chatterbots

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11 Aug 2008, 4:40 pm

greenblue wrote:

Averick wrote:

So, do you bridge a common similiarity between solipsism and narcissism?

Fictional character. I am clearly larger than life.... yes, I do eat too many potato chips.

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11 Aug 2008, 4:42 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

greenblue wrote:

Averick wrote:

So, do you bridge a common similiarity between solipsism and narcissism?

Fictional character. I am clearly larger than life.... yes, I do eat too many potato chips.

But ficiontal characters can eat potato chips or whatever they want as many they want within the fictional universe.

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11 Aug 2008, 4:44 pm

I've personally came to conclude that autistic thinking has many different tributaries of symptomology. Whether it's solipsism, narcissism, disinterest-ism, or sociopathy; I believe they manifest out of hypersensitivity.

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11 Aug 2008, 4:45 pm

And it is true: you can eat only just one!

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11 Aug 2008, 5:14 pm

Anubis wrote:

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

But anyway, the best way to address these issues is logic. Prove to the people that what they propose or what they must accept are things that contradict their position.

Quote:

Yep, that is solipsism, and nothing can be said one way or another against the position.

Doesn't this just presuppose a material substrate of phenomena which needs to be proven, but can only be proven via evidence which would require assuming that phenomena correspond to noumenal realities which we have already called into question by doubting reality? Life could be a dream, it could be a fabrication of Descartes' Demon... who knows? The point is that in order to discuss reality's existence you need to establish a link between phenomenal and noumenal things, in spite of the fact that our knowledge of things is strictly phenomenal.

If we assume that something's existence corresponds to something external to human experience (rather than just the existence of a pattern of observation which would imply that systems evolve in a certain matter when we aren't looking at them), the lack of unique noumenal solutions to phenomenon negates the possibility of "knowing" the existence of anything except ourselves (granting for the sake of argument the Cogito). We can characterize our senses, but we can't know them or what produces them, strictly speaking.

You can't refute solipsism in this way without presupposing properties of "reality" which you can't necessarily assume without begging the question.

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11 Aug 2008, 5:17 pm

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