The atheist crusades must stop!

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Ah; but you just prove my point. You quote source rather than endeavouring to argue original!
Anybody can repeat what they've read, paste a weblink, but I'd have hoped you'd seek to construct your own arguement.
Hence what I was originally saying: Most who class themselves as agnostic, atheist or religious are using borrowed information; very few reach the conclusion by independent research, study and reflection.

Perhaps you should pursue philosophy? Maybe then you could argue point; otherwise, please, keep posting wikipedia links. Common intellectual materials, hardly infallible.

By the by; I said generalisation, not hasty generalisation - in that I knew full-well what I was saying was partial; but with some small expectation of accurate interpretation. The bible is not scientific evidence; but it is percieved, note the use of this word characteristic to all belief, as harder evidence than any fossil or other materials.
Religion is illogical; the mind is logical but limited in capacities and senses for greater interpretation and reaches out to grasp
the concept by a complex "substitute" concept that makes sense to their limited senses. The average agnostic or atheist reach their conclusions by the same mechanisms; otherwise they'd all have completely different neurologies.
Those who endeavour to discover by original means the origins of anything do so by the full knowledge of substitutes, and identify with them in such a manner; for example, two-dimensional representations of three or four dimensional objects.
It's primarily a personality issue.

Basic psychology. Maybe you can find somebody else's quote on the subject?

The source of the argument is irrelevant, you silly boy. The argument is the only relevant thing. I am irrelevant to the process and obviously you by your own admission are also irrelevant.



Why are you angry? Have I tried to impose on you? Have I harmed you?

How can one be irrelevant when active as pursuent? You're logic is incomprehinsible.
Why do you persist? Perhaps I appear angered because I find attempting to educate the unwilling I get frustrated. Soul of a teacher, I suppose.

Ishmael, you need to get over yourself. Aren't you just a kid?

The ego is nothing, the word is everything. My words are not my ego so attack my words and I feel nothing. Attack my ego and I feel disdain and contempt for one who would seek to attack another ego.

Ego is everything! Ego lends strength to the words; words without spirit are but syllables strung along and uttered by any. So you suggest I attack that one thing I respect and acknowledge? Those are the actions of the weak, do not suggest I would be so. Maintain your arguments; express your views and ideas, even go so far, as I have, to attempt to identify how personality colours one anpthers arguments, but do not attack my character.

As for slowmutant's comment, I aask, what do you know of me. What leads you to believe I am, as you say, a kid? If so; it's news to me.

Not bad for a hypocrite, eh?

I also agree. Your post was superb. I noticed no one offered any valid criticisms.

First, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

Second, one man's bigotry is another man's certitude; and one man's idiocy is another man's dogma.

Third, please stop shouting.


Me either ... only profane emotionalism.

i don't get how you could hyphenate agnostic with the two other terms. i'm an agnostic: i don't believe any of the man-made stories are anything more than epic tales of different people at best but i don't discount the possibility of something.....just not the something that the people who follow man-made religions like christianity and wiccan and islam.

anyways, if the christian god were real, the contest at mount carmel would be reproducible by that god's people. (note to future religions: don't make a claim of what your god can do unless he can do it again as needed)

Because until now I haven't been paying real attention to this thread... I actually had to dig to find Fnord's post...


As judgmental and divisive as you are being in your attitude towards anyone who is a member of a religion?



And yet, after openly interpreting the Bible in a non-literal fashion for 15 years, I'm still a member of my church. Same applies to 95% of my church, including all the clergy and staff at the church I go to...



No contest there. Again, I wouldn't consider the people at my church *fanatical*, though...



Which is why my denomination (Presbyterian Church) adopted democratic government (The Presbyterian church government was actually the basis for the US government), to avoid one person gaining too much power and suppressing all other opinions within the church about religion.



And Democrats, Republicans, Corporate stockholders, Red Sox fans... the list goes on, regardless of whether a group is religious or not.



Society has adopted many of the important laws set down in Abrahamic scriptures. Murder, Theft, and lying under Oath are all criminal offenses in most countries. Adultery, while not carrying any criminal charge anymore, is often seen as an immoral act. People generally recognize that working 24/7, even if it makes one only enough money to pay the rent, is very stressful. Jesus often preached things like "love thy neighbor" and so forth.

I will however not offer contest on some of the more stupid laws (concerning homosexuality and abortion, for example).



I don't even know what point the two of you are trying to reach here, so I'm just going to move on...


I'm pretty sure that everyone in the church I go to knows that the Earth spins and revolves around the sun, that the Universe started with the Big Bang and is estimated to be 13~15 million years old, and that humans evolved from apes.



The church I go to is probably the group that is most accepting towards autistics of any group I know. Partially, this is owing to my mother, one of the music directors, being an undiagnosed aspie, while I'm down there all the time, as well as my LFA brother. People there don't look at us funny, aren't afraid of us, and are very patient when we are committing social gaffes (which are further reduced by being in a low-stress environment). I even know a few self-proclaimed athiests (one of which volunteers to run our sound system) from there that are still accepted inside the church despite being openly athiest.



Emphasis should be on the word perverted, but otherwise no contest.



This is also an over-generalization. If one of our members (unlikely as the case may be) were to declare that he was going to kill someone "in the name of God", we would call the cops on him, no matter how much we respected him...

We, as aspies, are all good at generalizing things, and we all get pissed when a group that we belong to gets generalized with another group that we don't agree with (in this case, the mainstream religion I am a part of and fundamentalist religions of which I mostly disagree with...)





Ok fine, I'll give you some profane emotionalism too: As I've stated above, the church I go to is the one place in the physical world (as opposed to the Internet) where I truly feel accepted as a person, rather than just labeled as either an aspie or "that weird guy". If my church was just a victim of generalization, then I can understand and hopefully try to explain the differences at hand (as I was just doing). However, if Fnord truly wishes for all religious institutions to truly perish, I'll be standing outside, waiting for him... I am NOT going to let him take away the only group that has ever accepted me for being who I am.

What about people who believe in (sanguine)Vampires? Which are physilogically and biochemically impossible
In this life we have many choices, one of the most critical is the choice between Truth and Happiness. I choose Truth yet
I do realize that Its NOT my place to make that choice for anyone else, though I am tempted at times to actively promote skepticism. As long as relgious wackos continue to preach and proselytize those of us who choose Truth over happiness are going to speak up.

Yes, if not moreso.

But at least I don't pretend to spread "The Gospel of Love, Peace, and Joy."


Fair enough. It is only right to defend those who accept you as you are for the few hours each Sunday that you are with them.

It's not so much that I wish all religons to perish; I wish that only for those that preach brotherly love during regular services, and then treat each other like orphans during the rest of the week. As for the rest, I'd like to see more active demonstrations of their "universal" love, rather than their usual passive demonstrations of smarmy indifference.

what a load of manure. if you really think it was revolutionary back then to say "don't kill people, don't steal, don't lie" then you're really gullible. that's like saying that robert johnson invented the blues or that elvis invented rock and roll.

Wouldnt it be Hella creeepy if the cause of multiple personality disorder was psychic vampirism? That is, the *soul* of a dead person taking possession of the mind and body of a living person......

I am accepted week-round, year-round, for all of my life thus far. It's not just a few hours on Sunday. I'm down at my church for much of the week while I'm not at school. I can't even remember any time, at any point in the week, that I've felt unwelcome...