The Illuminati Discussion

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You know, all our discussions here are monitored and saved in a huge database, they probably know where each of us live and they can even observe you from your own home trought satelite, they can even see when you are in intimate relationships.

if i was actually paranoid then that might bother me.

I would question that, if for no other reason than it looks like it was designed to create hysteria and fear.

If the aim truly is to lift the veil that has kept us in darkness, then isn't that a good thing? And if they do that, wouldn't enslavement be rather impossible at that point?

im not sure what you're talking about.. the ones trying to lift the veil are Wes Penre and his website.. and that's fine if you question it, so do i.. but honestly, how can you talk about something like this and believe it, and not sound like you are full of hysteria?.. people arent used to this idea therefore it's an alienation and you have to place a label on it, usually he ones who believe it being the victims of this.. you cant tell half a story in fear of being victimized though because that would defeat the purpose of plainly saying what you believe.. if its true there should be no fear in speaking it.

The biggest issue is a cultural one.

For whatever reason, Americans seem conditioned to lash out against anyone who believes in a conspiracy. From what I have heard about Europe, people more or less take it for granted that politicians will try to work behind the scenes to increase their power. There probably is not a grand "illuminati" style conspiracy, but I think its asinine to assume that politicans are all so good people that they never strike "smoke-filled room" deals for the sake of their own benefit.

I never said that they controlled everything. I just said that at one point there was a group called the Illuminati. They didn't really do much except piss off the Jesuits and disband.

This is more or less true with some exceptional circumstances. However, most wars are fought over resources, certainly not "spontaneous hatreds". In strictly agrarian societies it was land and food for the most part. Also mineral wealth. Now it's energy resources and food. That is not to say that a select ruthless few don't get very, very, rich or are simply interested in broadening their existing base of power and wealth by controlling these resources. So, they goad the masses with propaganda and often out and out lies into fighting these wars. Sometimes with little to actually substantiate some obtuse claim of "you will starve", or "they will will become too powerful and take your land, sacrifice your children, eat kittens" etc... (or some such other fear mongering).
It is easy to hate the man who simply by his very existence threatens your own survival. Or you are told he does anyway. Any one will tell themselves such lies, or believe them all too easily. It is a salve to our conscience (and an ingrained, almost instinctive one) to tell ourselves 'He is Evil', because saying 'He might take what I have and I am afraid', or worse yet 'I want what he has to better ensure my own survival.'; doesn't sit well with most people.



Invasion of Iraq? Just curious.



Yes. And we are standing on the brink of this potential for exploitation. Contrived carefully or not, and if so to what extent is one of my questions. Historically this has happened before, and been avoided before.




Agreed. Absolutely. Common tactic to placate the masses and possibly internal psychological buffer for our individual 'benevolent leaders' cum despots. 'But I, the leader/genius/better educated/Anointed By God (take your pick), know what is best.' (Less articulately "I am the Decider." Hoh boy...) In short "For The Greater Good" the age old cry of oppressors through the centuries. I'm sure some believed it, I"m sure some (in good old Machiavellian tradition) didn't, and lied through their teeth to stay in power anyway, (because their just staying in power was for the Greater Good.)



Again. See above, only apply to every individual of The Great Unwashed. i.e. 'you and me.' This is the lie the collective 'we' buys over and over again.



Yes. But is this a societal happenstance to be exploited, or again an intricately contrived social-media-blitz atmosphere created for a select few to control many?



Many would argue that human nature dictates that such a hierarchy within our societies may be inevitable. This is usually based on a control of resources=wealth dynamic. (Please note. This does not mean that that tendency is moral or, in my opinion, unavoidable.)




Certainly. Ghandi (in my opinion) reached his phenomenal clarity of thought, (and therefor gained his ability to change the world) because he lived with absolute compassion and lack of fear. You cannot have the first without the other. It is a rare being who can accomplish this, and everything is a matter of degree.
Again, just my opinion, and in acknowledged arrogance , I would like to suggest that you consider that a bit. My intent here is not to be patronizing, and I am certainly not saying that my judgement is not often clouded by fear; however, just think on this. I would point you to the first paragraph I wrote here to bolster this point.

Now, to (try to) tie this all together. I agree with you that there are contemporary social circumstances/recent legislation/media potential/ and historical evidence (in the cyclical sense) that your hypothesis is plausible. I don't think I have ever denied that. I only denied some of the evidence you provided as objective or from a source that is credible.

I do not know if there is a secret society called the Illuminati. I think it is probable. I think it is possible that there are individuals within our own society that are very powerful economically and politically that are involved with this organization.

This is what we cannot know, (or at least is very difficult).

-How many are involved.

-The extent of any one individuals involvement.

-The personal (and perhaps secret goals) of any one individual who is involved.

-What their collective power or potential power level is, in terms of manipulating society.

-How splintered they are. How many sub-sects and agendas and counter organizations. If there is this secret Illuminati conspiracy, my guess is there are many different splinter groups (with the same name) with their own ideas of who should be in charge. Even a sort of ever shifting social-darwinian sort of struggle. This would hinder any of them.

-What their agenda truly is. More specifically that they are a Satanic or any other cult. We can speculate based on anecdotal evidence that is often difficult to substantiate, but that is all. Until a very credible witness comes up and says they saw G.W. Bush standing there while somebody sacrificed an infant (or better yet video), I at least am going to be skeptical about possible religious affiliations or motives.

and

-The specifics of how they hope to accomplish that agenda. There is some circumstantial evidence that is certainly provocative and even a little compelling, but I, at least, have yet to see anything really solid.

That's okay, glad you read into it though..

As your your advice on the ghandi quote, I'm not afraid, and i hate it when people assume that i am.. im not afraid they will take anything from me, i'm not paranoid, I just flaunt this material way too often, and that's all there is to it.. so people assume im this nut who's always thinking about them.. im an obsessive person, not a paranoid one, while at times one can lead to the other.. but afraid of the illuminati i am not. Interested in them I most certainly am, because the more you learn the crazier it gets.. I always come across good information when im not on these boards when i am actually researching, so maybe ill be able to find more solid evidence.. like i said the purpose of this thread was not supposed to be to try and prove anything, but it seems that's the only way i can have a discussion here about them. I would prefer it if more people who agreed with me would post, but I guess they are few and far between.. not enough people know about them.. Ill find interviews that might be of interest.. although im not sure if there's any that you've seen yet.

wow, maybe my former husband was part of the Illuminati. . .he got kicked out of the Jesuit prep school he went to, and to hear him tell it, he and his friends really pissed off a lot of brothers, or fathers or uncles then.

Merle

No, he wasn't.

You're saying the Freemasons have acquired the actual cross of Christ? BTW chever try not to be such a douche.

No.

He said that they're "made to spit on the cross" (any cross, I guess)

Color pix plz

Is that symbolism as obvious as I think it is? Are the Masons rejecting Christianity when they do that or does the act of spitting on a cross have even more cryptic significance?

There was a time when spitting -on someone's forehead- was actually a form of baptism or benediction or something like that.

you don't know my taste in men, do you!

Merle

Wasn't that on Dune?

Merle

I dunno. But there was a passage like that in The Dark Tower I by my man Stephen King. One character spit on the forehead of another character while raising him from the dead.