Operation Red Skies

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chever
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21 Sep 2008, 11:52 am

ShawnWilliam wrote:

chever wrote:

ShawnWilliam wrote:

How do you know?

And what?

Okay, in one part there are two planes flying through the sky at the same time... one of the contrails is clearly water vapor, it dissipates quickly, and doesn't stick.. but the other plane, which doesn't appear to be a commercial plane, deposits these huge contrails, and it doesn't dissipate at all.. do you know the difference? Which one is not like the other?
Simon saayys.. figure it out.

They were probably at different altitudes.

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21 Sep 2008, 12:13 pm

pbcoll wrote:

LeKiwi wrote:

Suggest a few of you look up HAARP and what they're actually doing..

HAARP is not secret. Not only is its existence and location public knowledge, some of their research gets published in the peer-reviewed literature - anybody that pays a subscription can download these publications. I'm sure some of their data is not public due to DoD involvement (which incidentally also happens when private industry is involved even if there is nothing 'suspicious' about it, but the company wants to protect its intellectual property and not help competitors) - that is not proof or evidence at all that they are doing anything more 'conspiratorial' than doing research in jamming enemy radio communications.
No shred of evidence has been presented that the planes shown have anything to do with HAARP, or that their contrails are anything other than water vapour.

chever wrote:

Given that the US government has already openly admitted to the idea of using weather modification as a weapon, the necessity for conspiracy theories involving grey aliens and Illuminati seems dubious.

Exactly - the use of cloud seeding and the idea of using weather modification as a weapon is public knowledge, so what's the conspiracy exactly? (Occam's razor strikes again... ) It's like saying the US government has a conspiracy to have nuclear weapons - it's public knowledge that they do, the fundamental principles the technology is based on is public knowledge, you may agree or not with possessing a nuclear arsenal, but it's not a conspiracy. (The destructive potential of known nuclear arsenals is greater than that of weather modification, by the way) Likewise, there are perfectly normal motives for cloud seeding, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out military applications for weather modification or ionosphere modification.

The argument seems to be: The government is involved, therefore it's evil, and it has to involve vsome secret alien conspiracy. .

I just said about 5 posts ago that no, HAARP is not to do with these trails (there are theories that it could be, but I don't personally think they hold much credence). I was stating that for those going on about weather modification, one need only look so far as HAARP to see it's already going on, and more than likely being used as a weapon. Do you read anything people say?

I also just stated I hardly think aliens have to do with it - why do people feel a need to bring irrelevent things into debates they don't agree with to try - and fail - to discredit the 'other party'? Nobody's being irrational here, so let's leave the irrational and unrelated ideas out, yeah?

Also, I've said a few times on here that I don't know who's behind it, why they're doing it, or what it is. I don't understand how you can get from that that I'm saying 'it's the evil government/Osama/boogeyman-du-jour'.

Now, I would suggest going and watching the video. Like, pressing play and watching it until it stops. Because it appears pretty much everyone posting here hasn't.

ShawnWilliam wrote:

In the video there's many examples of why planes are emitting something other than water vapor.. It's astounding how people keep saying that it's water vapor when, if you actually watch the video, you'll see that there are planes emitting something different. The fact that they are emitting something different is not in question here, I've seen the proof with my own eyes, can we move on the the actual issue?.
Water vapor is out of the question at this point..
WHY they are doing it is the question..
Weather control?.. mm, possibly, and likely..
but with what? is it safe?.. do they have our best interests in mind?
did they have your best interests in mind when they went to war in Iraq?
do they ever have OUR best interests in mind?

whatever is going on, it's global, and not spoken about enough for something that is not entirely 'SECRET'..

Well said.

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0_equals_true
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21 Sep 2008, 12:19 pm

Particle and atmospheric physics is not a trivial thing that you make it out to be. They are still studying cloud formation as is one of the options to combat global warming. Especially the types that will cause clouds that block out more of the sun rays. However if you find and independent particle and atmospheric physicist I'm sure they will offer a decent explanation of what you are seeing.

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21 Sep 2008, 12:29 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

Clouds can do all kinds of weird and wonderful things and come in many shapes and sizes, but I doubt an atmospheric physicist will be able to answer what planes are doing looping around drawing checkerboards across our skies across the world with chemicals that don't dissipate the way normal contrails of water vapour do, any more than anyone else can.

Why isn't this spoken about more often?

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LeKiwi
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21 Sep 2008, 12:31 pm

And what do you say about the ones that are grey or black in colour? Or that produce rainbows that hang about for a whole day, such as in this photo? We get the rainbow ones and the black ones at least once a week where I live.

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0_equals_true
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21 Sep 2008, 12:36 pm

If you don't ask you don't get.

Why isn't this talked about? Well because all climatologists, and atmospheric scientist in the world are conspiring against you!

monty
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21 Sep 2008, 12:37 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:

Jet engines are not so completely different from the engines on cars and trucks - depending on the speed of the engine and torque, they may or may not burn 100% of the fuel. When planes are climbing or accelerating (the equivalent of overdrive), expect to see differences in the emission pattern.

This is especially an issue with military planes that have all kinds of special thrust modes.

Moving between layers of air also has a profound effect on cloud formation - if a plane rises or drops a few hundred feet (or even a few feet) into a different type of air mass, the patterns change dramatically.

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21 Sep 2008, 12:41 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

If you don't ask you don't get.

Why isn't this talked about? Well because all climatologists, and atmospheric scientist in the world are conspiring against you!

I'm not mentioning any climatologists or atmospheric scientists, you are. I'm also far from the only person concerned about this - one need only google the word 'chemtrail' to come up with thousands and thousands of sites. People are worried, as we should be. And if it is benign climatologists and atmospheric scientists behind it, they should certainly be saying something given the level of global concern over what they're doing. You'd think if it was them - which I'm sure it's not, and I'm not bringing them into it, again - that they'd have mentioned something about it sooner.

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0_equals_true
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21 Sep 2008, 12:41 pm

Paricles can vary greatly and the formation does too. Don't take my word for it.

monty
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21 Sep 2008, 12:42 pm

LeKiwi wrote:

The rainbow effect is well understood - water droplets act as prisms to separate 'white' light into its components. The photo proves that airplane trails contain water, which can form droplets under certain circumstances - usually when the air is cool and humidity is high.

Grey or black? Clouds appear grey or black to the degree that they can block light. Thick, dense clouds are black. The altitude, angle of the sun, and position of the observer are important.

Last edited by monty on 21 Sep 2008, 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

0_equals_true
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21 Sep 2008, 12:49 pm

People are concerned about a lot of things. It isn't objective to base the cause of psychical phenomena on how concerned people area about them.

Have you considered that some people who post conspiracy videos do it because they get a kick out of the worry they cause to anxious people. Maybe that is a conspiracy too.

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21 Sep 2008, 12:56 pm

monty wrote:

LeKiwi wrote:

Smeary, greasy brown 'rainbows'? Dark grey unlike any cloud I've ever seen?

I'll take photos next time and post them.

Incidentally, I just looked outside and there are 14 chemtrails in the sky at the moment in a diamond criss-cross pattern. None of them are rainbowed or grey though, so I won't photo.

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pbcoll
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21 Sep 2008, 1:29 pm

ShawnWilliam wrote:

i'd wager one thousand dollars that you didnt look.

I did waste my time looking at it. I'll tell you whereto post my cheque.

Quote:

In the video there's many examples of why planes are emitting something other than water vapor.. It's astounding how people keep saying that it's water vapor when, if you actually watch the video, you'll see that there are planes emitting something different. The fact that they are emitting something different is not in question here, I've seen the proof with my own eyes, can we move on the the actual issue?.

Is your evidence divine revelation? The contrails aren't doing anything water vapour doesn't. You have presented zero evidence that they are not in fact water vapour.

LeKiwi wrote:

And if it is benign climatologists and atmospheric scientists behind it, they should certainly be saying something given the level of global concern over what they're doing.

If scientists went to the press each time some conspiracy theorists post something on youtube, they would never get anything done. besides, it's usually pointless anyway.

"LeKiwi wrote:

Smeary, greasy brown 'rainbows'? Dark grey unlike any cloud I've ever seen?

They're not natural clouds, so there's no reason for them to be identical to natural ones (I've never seen natural clouds form straight lines, but contrails can - this doesn't mean they are chemically different). Ice cubes from your freezer don't resemble glaciers, but they're both ice.
By the way I wasn't referring to you when I posted that conspiracy-theorist the arguments were frequently of the 'the government is involved, therefore it's evil' type.

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LeKiwi
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21 Sep 2008, 2:21 pm

Water vapour and normal clouds don't make rainbows, let alone greasy brown ones. That was my point.

And it's not just a few minority 'conspiracy theorists' (stupid misuse of the term once again; conspiracies are everywhere) posting on youtube, this has been a major talking point since they started coming into common use in the mid-90s. It's something that gets spoken of alot but that nobody ever hears any 'official lines' on.

Sheesh, even Beck has a song called 'chemtrails' - you don't get rockstars making songs about cultural talking points if they're something nobody's heard of.

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Phagocyte
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21 Sep 2008, 2:23 pm

LeKiwi wrote:

Water vapour and normal clouds don't make rainbows

Yes they do, they split up the [white] light's wavelengths so you see the whole spectrum, it's called scattering. That's why they're commonly seen after rainfall.

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LeKiwi
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21 Sep 2008, 2:31 pm

Phagocyte wrote:

LeKiwi wrote:

Water vapour and normal clouds don't make rainbows

Yes they do, they split up the [white] light's wavelengths so you see the whole spectrum, it's called scattering. That's why they're commonly seen after rainfall.

You're being obtuse. We're talking about clouds; not rain. Clouds don't have rainbows in them. Rainbows appear in the sky - clouds are white or grey or somewhere in between. They aren't puffy rainbows, let alone puffy greasy brown ones.

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